tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post114655681144329822..comments2024-03-28T15:14:16.180+02:00Comments on Life in Israel: Yom Hazikaron with the haredimRafi G.http://www.blogger.com/profile/00699851287106903971noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-1146668963951697962006-05-03T18:09:00.000+03:002006-05-03T18:09:00.000+03:00ignoring the Haredim for a minute, in regards to t...ignoring the Haredim for a minute, in regards to the general religious public (mostly national religious), almost all of the them serve in the army. Guys and girls. I would not call them a minority - they are integrated into general society completely and are part of the Israeli public. They server in nearly 100% capacity.<BR/>The Haredim who serve (and there are many) are clearly a minority. I can understand why you perceive them the way you do, and I cannot defend them adequately, so i will not try. However, i do see improvement. more and more are getting themselves drafted. more and more are joining the workforce. More and more are integrating. Again, the change is slow, and maybe we wish it could go faster, but it is happening. As they integrate more, they drop their previous misconceptions (as do the general public drop the miconceptions about the Haredim).Rafi G.https://www.blogger.com/profile/00699851287106903971noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-1146667321791798382006-05-03T17:42:00.000+03:002006-05-03T17:42:00.000+03:00Rafi,I especially mean the haredi public. However,...Rafi,<BR/><BR/>I especially mean the haredi public. However, notwithstanding the exemplary and dedicated service of the religious soldiers who comprise an overweight portion of the highly regarded combat troops, as a percentage of the religious public only a minority actually searve. Of course I include women in this number as irreligious women are required to serve or volunteer in other fashions. But again, I do not discount the minority who have risen above the rest. <BR/>And,unfortunately,as the haredi are the most vocal and least grateful it is easiest to use them as the prime and clear example of this lack of gratitude and disgust towards their fellow man.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-1146604991789190252006-05-03T00:23:00.000+03:002006-05-03T00:23:00.000+03:00Dan - you are way off. The religious community is ...Dan - you are way off. The religious community is the most dedicated of all groups in the army. I do nto remember the numbers offhand, and am too tired to go look them up right now, but the religious community makes up a majority of all elite units in the army. The religious soldiers are the most dedicated and committed of any group in Israel. <BR/><BR/>You might be referring to the Haredi public, rather than the religious public. Then you might have a good point. yes, they can do better and I agree with much of what you say (though I do not agree that they look at the secular as not human).<BR/>But the ceremony under discussion was not a haredi ceremony. it was a general religious ceremony. They were not being exclusionary, rather holding a ceremony remembering their own, in addition to the general ceremonies they participate in.<BR/>An added benefit of this ceremony was that the Haredi public (or some of them at least) felt more comfortable takign part in it, than they would have if it was a regular secular ceremony. <BR/>They are slowly integrating into general society. All the signs point to it. It is a slow process, and this is one small baby step in the process. they have a long way to go, but I see it as progress. Progress not just in participating, which is minimal human decency, but progress in the sense that they are really starting to feel as being part of the same society and we are all connected to each other.<BR/>I have written a number of posts on this phenomena, and I relally think this is another manifestation of this progression of joining general israeli society.Rafi G.https://www.blogger.com/profile/00699851287106903971noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-1146603862545488652006-05-03T00:04:00.000+03:002006-05-03T00:04:00.000+03:00I think one of the complaints that are ignored by ...I think one of the complaints that are ignored by the religious community is the arrogance and lack of hakoras hatov. Here you have thousands of soldiers who have died defending israel. They have perished defending everyone including the religious. Hundreds of thousands have sacrificed their time and energy and all that goes with army service. Not only do the religious community by and large not searve in the army or volunteer in other fashions but they do not have gratitude or recognise the humanity of these people risking and sacrificing on their behalf. A private ceremony not on yom hazikaron is different then one on yom hazikaron. A ceremony on Yom hazikaron that segments out all but the religious is a slap on the face for all the other people's sacrifice. This is the complaint: where is the humanity of the greater religious movement. Where is the ben adam lchavero which is spoken of on yom kippur. Or is it all rhetoric for a cult type mindset wherein only members of the "group" are human. And ben adam lchavero and hakaros hatov only apply with that group.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-1146603748179894022006-05-03T00:02:00.000+03:002006-05-03T00:02:00.000+03:00Mr. Cubs - could be. But small memorial ceremonies...Mr. Cubs - could be. But small memorial ceremonies are always specific. It could be exclusionary by default, but not necessarily by intent.. <BR/><BR/>Anyway, the Cubs just lost 8-0 and the season is already getting tiresome..Rafi G.https://www.blogger.com/profile/00699851287106903971noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-1146599595353426882006-05-02T22:53:00.000+03:002006-05-02T22:53:00.000+03:00rafi, i do agree with you second point and we will...rafi, i do agree with you second point and we will have to wait and see that things really will develop and progress. as far as your first thought, though, it seems (at least the media twist) is that it was to the exclusion of all others. finally, although recently yom hazikaron is in memory of terror victims as well, the ikar is for fallen soldiers. if the haredi community would have a ceremony for fallen haredi soldiers, i think that would "recognize" both the secular state's day as well as the value in serving the defense of that same state.hubscubshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10197388364331929686noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-1146598364263222212006-05-02T22:32:00.000+03:002006-05-02T22:32:00.000+03:00thank youthank youRafi G.https://www.blogger.com/profile/00699851287106903971noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-1146591615776514962006-05-02T20:40:00.000+03:002006-05-02T20:40:00.000+03:00Excellent post.Excellent post.Ezziehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12494592434522239195noreply@blogger.com