tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post1576705454999788893..comments2024-03-18T19:59:12.814+02:00Comments on Life in Israel: Jewish community collapse disorderRafi G.http://www.blogger.com/profile/00699851287106903971noreply@blogger.comBlogger12125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-79149194322883671572013-05-23T21:32:20.382+03:002013-05-23T21:32:20.382+03:00You need serious therapy. If there are others like...You need serious therapy. If there are others like you, we would not survive.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-71979746878693920362013-05-23T21:28:16.151+03:002013-05-23T21:28:16.151+03:00Definition of who is a Jew is not "controlled...Definition of who is a Jew is not "controlled" by the ultra othodox, but by true Torah law.<br /><br />Acceptance of those who converts out of convenience without a sincere devotion to the Jewish religion and acceptance of its observance including respect for the holiness of shabbos and laws of kashrut is a sham. It will only lead to the further destruction of the Jewish poeople as we know it. What is the point of converting just to "look the part" in a marriage of religious convenience where both parties to the couple really are not that commited Jewishly in the first place. Failure to properlhy educate children and not sending them to Jewish Days schools is a forumla for disaster for the future of our religion.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-83324231380875123462013-05-23T19:25:27.621+03:002013-05-23T19:25:27.621+03:00Rafi and Danny, I think you are both correct, &quo...Rafi and Danny, I think you are both correct, "religion is thriving" and "religion is in its death throes" in Israel. From my limited perspective as an outsider, it would seem that: 1) Israel is facing a growing divide, the Orthodox are getting more Orthodox and the secular are drifting towards atheism and abandonment of tradition. 2) For this I blame the dualism that the Ultra Orthodox establishment has imposed on Israel via their state sponsored monopoly on traditional functions (weddings, etc). 3) When faced with the choice of Ultra Orthodox ceremonies or nothing, many will opt for the latter. 4) Whereas the pluralistic model in America, that allows for Conservative and Reform synagogues, has allowed for the "religious middle" to have a space to express their Judaism. Jasonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11152746014493443822noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-30453482453416312262013-05-23T19:20:40.699+03:002013-05-23T19:20:40.699+03:00Thoughtful piece Harold. Great responses everyone....Thoughtful piece Harold. Great responses everyone. Tough call: 1) On one hand, the "stick", i.e. shunning and expelling Jews who intermarried historically did work. And there is only so much a tradition can bend before it breaks. 2) On the other hand, given the facts on the ground, the "carrot strategy" that many Conservative and Reform synagogues have adopted, of "better to gain a non-Jewish spouse and facilitate their conversation, then lose a Jew" seems reasonable. Jasonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11152746014493443822noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-18995870950055028392013-05-13T18:11:30.069+03:002013-05-13T18:11:30.069+03:00http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-1281...http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-12811197<br />http://ivn.us/independent-americans/2013/02/13/losing-our-religion-study-shows-decline-in-religious-affiliation/<br />http://www.americanhumanist.org/HNN/details/2012-04-the-state-of-religion-declining-belief-in-god-worldwide<br />http://www.jewishideasdaily.com/851/features/jewish-studies-in-decline/<br /><br />just a few, google studies on the decline of religion, can check worldwide, american, european, Israel, general etc....The Wayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02450690035446068510noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-66504238823543058592013-05-13T16:21:13.519+03:002013-05-13T16:21:13.519+03:00please point me to such a study. I'd like to s...please point me to such a study. I'd like to see itRafi G.https://www.blogger.com/profile/00699851287106903971noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-33371430638130896542013-05-13T16:17:15.959+03:002013-05-13T16:17:15.959+03:00For a few reasons:
First, secular and atheist Jud...For a few reasons:<br /><br />First, secular and atheist Judaism and atheism in general is growing and becoming more publicly accepted.<br />Second, Organized religion, both judaism and in general, is growing less respected and less believed - as every research report shows<br />Third, as the fundamentalist groups continue to become more extreme and segregated they have become and will continue to become less livable lifestyles, practically, emotionally, ad financially.<br /><br />Sometimes when you live inside the eye of a tornado, everything looks just fine. But from the outside, orthodox judaism is collapsing and becoming more strange looking and harder to accept by the rest of world jewry. not out of hatred for god or the orthodoxy, but out of repulsion for it's non-jewishnessThe Wayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02450690035446068510noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-57654988471287380642013-05-13T11:42:29.526+03:002013-05-13T11:42:29.526+03:00why do you say religion is in its death throes?
y...why do you say religion is in its death throes? <br />you or I may not like certain things that happen in the name of religion (probably different things), but to me it looks like religion is growing around Israel. I see traditional people becoming more religiously involved all around the country. Rafi G.https://www.blogger.com/profile/00699851287106903971noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-23210254193935810382013-05-13T11:36:54.184+03:002013-05-13T11:36:54.184+03:00Josh
Thats a pretty dogmatic statement from someo...Josh<br /><br />Thats a pretty dogmatic statement from someone who is clearly a believer with no attempt at critical thinking: Halacha has kept us together and will continue to do so. Except for the fact that it is simply untrue, its a fine statement for those who don't actually know history and therefore cannot extrapolate reasonable possibilities for the future.<br /><br />BTW, I live in Israel too. And living here it is only too clear that while the race of Jews may be growing, the religion of Judaism is in its death throes. The religion is controlled by groups that bear little or no resemblance to actual judaism- between the idolatry of rabbis and the Islamic/christian forms of sexual fundamentalism, just 2 clear examples of how Judaism today has been transformed and hijacked.The Wayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02450690035446068510noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-45438854895239688872013-05-12T21:08:08.509+03:002013-05-12T21:08:08.509+03:00I was hoping you would "way" in on this ...I was hoping you would "way" in on this post...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-28801389822266291062013-05-12T17:14:13.911+03:002013-05-12T17:14:13.911+03:00Halacha has kept us together until now, and it wil...Halacha has kept us together until now, and it will continue to keep us together in the future. Bending or stretching the rules is already done to a certain point, but it is forbidden to publicize this because it will simply be exploited by the masses. Even voting in Rav Stav will not change anything. Rav Stav has already stated numerous times that he will not stray one bit from Rav Ovadia's psaks.<br /><br />I made aliyah almost 20 years ago. Just before aliyah, I was seeing a non-Jewish girl. Here, I met an Israel, got married and have many children, definitely many more than I would have even dreamed about there.<br /><br />Judaism is blooming in Israel. Please come and live it, you don't know what you are missing.joshnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-87026842742455756492013-05-12T15:40:53.889+03:002013-05-12T15:40:53.889+03:00The orthodox rules of conversion are simply one ti...The orthodox rules of conversion are simply one tiny part of why Jews are wholesale rejecting Judaism as a religion; although not as a race. <br /><br />Those who do convert, through any stream other than orthodox, are not counted as Jews by Israel, where the question of who is a Jew? is controlled by the strict ultra-orthodox.<br /><br />The recent attacks on the women of the wall is another example of the narrow minded control that the ultra-orthodox demand. To say nothing of the stories of spitting on women, throwing stones at cars driving on shabbat, discriminatory schooling, special rights regarding army service, schooling, finances... all the while, demanding and controlling the definition of the term JEW.<br /><br />So if the choice is, as Israel has made so clear, a Jew as the ultra-orthodox defines it, or a Jew merely as a race, I and so many other will continue to reject the religion of Judaism while maintaining our pride in our heritage as a people. And if that means that my children or grandchildren will not be counted as Jews, whose fault is that really?The Wayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02450690035446068510noreply@blogger.com