tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post1862412679451815157..comments2024-03-28T21:53:53.990+02:00Comments on Life in Israel: Why I do not feel obligated to vote UTJRafi G.http://www.blogger.com/profile/00699851287106903971noreply@blogger.comBlogger15125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-58741579927083464162008-11-11T20:44:00.000+02:002008-11-11T20:44:00.000+02:00Rafi - Great post! I wish you would have been able...Rafi - <BR/>Great post! I wish you would have been able to post this all over BS/RBS.<BR/>Now I am eager to read the rest of your blog posts, but must return to work. Just wanted to give you a pat on the back for putting some very valid points and thought down on paper.<BR/><BR/>Regards,<BR/>FaigieAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-46041172929389761022008-11-11T15:21:00.000+02:002008-11-11T15:21:00.000+02:00Rafi, Excellent post but you are too gracious.Let ...Rafi, Excellent post but you are too gracious.<BR/><BR/>Let me more direct. <BR/><BR/>The G stands for Goat Raisins.<BR/><BR/>Unfortunsately the entire Israeli Haredi world justifies much of the attacks that are found in such places as failed messiah and UOJ. <BR/><BR/>It is very sad for me personally since I do consider myself a 'Torah true Jew' and care very much about the Kovod of the TOrah and when then people who are percieved as it's representatives come across as such mindles, and yes G-dless morons there is no greater Hilul Hashem than that.<BR/><BR/>Kiddush Hashem is when Shem SHomayim is Misahev al Yodcha - when the rest of the world can see the "Shem Hashem Nikra Alecha"<BR/><BR/>Today there is nothign but Goat Raisins on the forehead of many Haredim. No thought.<BR/><BR/>Just blind following the people who have hijacked the TOrah and replaced with GOat Raisins.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-54771615049469453882008-11-11T13:26:00.000+02:002008-11-11T13:26:00.000+02:00The only Chiullul Hashem going on here is how the ...The only Chiullul Hashem going on here is how the "Torah-true" Party is invlolved in sinas chinam and motzei shem ra agaionst erlich Yidden, and justify it because of daas torah. They deserve to lose your vote just for their nasty middos. Where there is machlokes and sinas chinam, there is no Emes, and hopefully people will see through that and not be intimidated.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-84118180585069298892008-11-11T13:04:00.000+02:002008-11-11T13:04:00.000+02:00I can't understand how certain otherwise normal Ba...I can't understand how certain otherwise normal Bais Tefillah types would go with anybody but Lerner-isn't it clear that Rav Malinowitz just isn't looking for machloket but he leans towards Lerner?<BR/><BR/>Baruch Hashem that Rav Malinowitz opposes daas torah terrorism.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-77432862468416846982008-11-11T13:01:00.000+02:002008-11-11T13:01:00.000+02:00HaRav Malinowitz does not stand alone in his oppos...HaRav Malinowitz does not stand alone in his opposition to daas torah terrorism. Other haredi rabbis share his views but don't feel like creating machloket so they are silent.<BR/><BR/>The Piacezna Rebbe, for example has remained silent and is not tkaing an official position-but clearly he is against the daas torah insanity.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-84960340574565820942008-11-11T12:31:00.000+02:002008-11-11T12:31:00.000+02:00Shaul:1. Rav Steinman's personal Gabbaim came to t...Shaul:<BR/>1. Rav Steinman's personal Gabbaim came to the Aseifa at Kehilas Yaakov earlier this week and spoke with Rav Goldstein, et al about the situation (Yes, I saw them)<BR/>2. Rav Kornfeld claims he has personally spoken to Rav Steinman a number of times about the elections, so you would be accusing also him of misleading Rav Steinman<BR/>Is it really that hard for you to fathom that Rav Steinman is opposed to Tov? (Almost) all of the other Haredi Rabbonim in RBS have said it is a Hillul Hashem to vote for them.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-58100577144684729752008-11-11T12:27:00.000+02:002008-11-11T12:27:00.000+02:00Anon 11:48:"People should not try to be MeDayek on...Anon 11:48:<BR/><BR/><I>"People should not try to be MeDayek on Rav Steinman's words: it is clearer than can be that he came to Beit Shemesh to prevent people from voting for Tov, especially since he mentioned the "Daas Torah" in his words"</I><BR/><BR/>What nonsense is that - we shouldn't be m'dayek in his words?! Are you saying we should simply trust the Good Fellows of Gimmel to explain to us what the Rav really meant? How do you know that the Rav was told anything about the existence of Tov bichlal? Maybe he was asked about people voting for Likud, Labor or other non-religious parties? That's exactly what askanim like Gimmel specialize in: they form a protective ring around the "Gedolim", filtering information coming in, and interpreting and editorializing information coming out, so that the average man in the street is fed exactly what the askanim - <B>not</B> the gedolim - want them to be fed.Shaul Bhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13657787388625188732noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-15447189199299363492008-11-11T11:48:00.000+02:002008-11-11T11:48:00.000+02:00Rafi,Greatly appreciate your post. It helped me to...Rafi,<BR/>Greatly appreciate your post. It helped me to clarify the positions involved.<BR/>Although I tend to agree with you, it would seem to me that Rav Malinowitz (whom I respect deeply) here is taking issue with the basic tenet of Israeli Haredi ideology: that there are the "Gedolim" whom we must all listen to. I myself haven't found too much support for this (it would seem that the Sefer HaHinuch says this is not the case these days), but this is the reality.<BR/>To divorce oneself from this view is truly to say you are not an "Israeli Haredi" (or, in the words of Gimmel, a "Haredi" at all). So, it would make sense that they don't want to accept you into their schools, etc, since you have been Kofer BeIkar as far as they are concerned (or, perpetrated a Chillul HaShem)<BR/>So, just please be aware that by relying on the words and the Psak of Rav Malinowitz, you are effectively being Poresh from the "Haredi" Tzibur, at least as they understand it<BR/>P.S.: People should not try to be MeDayek on Rav Steinman's words: it is clearer than can be that he came to Beit Shemesh to prevent people from voting for Tov, especially since he mentioned the "Daas Torah" in his wordsAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-25969904325932292592008-11-11T11:31:00.000+02:002008-11-11T11:31:00.000+02:00http://theyeshivaworld.com/news/General+News/25754...http://theyeshivaworld.com/news/General+News/25754/PHOTOS+-+Rav+Shteinman+Addresses+Ramat+Beit+Shemesh+Elections.html<BR/><BR/>R. Shteinman said,<BR/>Chillul Hashem which is worse than "Avoida zoro"(sic) to vote for a party without direct rabbinical guidance (=control) (implied: Tov)?<BR/><BR/>Who is making the chillul Hashem here?<BR/><BR/>What happened to the days when the rabbonim were also democratically elected?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-53853592805841554542008-11-11T11:01:00.000+02:002008-11-11T11:01:00.000+02:00Folks, did anyone bother to read the flyer describ...Folks, did anyone bother to read the flyer describing what Rav Shteinman said? There is not a word in there implying that you cannot vote for any party other than Gimmel. The only thing he said is that it's a chillul Hashem to vote for a party that's not shomer torah umitzvos. So, folks, you can rest easy knowing that your vote, whether it be for Gimmel, Tov, Beyachad, Chen or Shas, is not going to land you in the fires of Gehinnom.<BR/><BR/>To their credit, at least Gimmel didn't directly put words in the Rav's mouth - but from their pamphlets, they extrapolate wildly; they would have you believe that the Rav said that voting for anyone other than Gimmel is itself a Chillul Hashem. Sheker vahevel! They heard only what they wanted to hear, and they are now twisting the Rav's words to suit their political agenda and support their general smear campaign.Shaul Bhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13657787388625188732noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-55062279511623011712008-11-11T10:51:00.000+02:002008-11-11T10:51:00.000+02:00Rav Malinowitz clearly understands that a lot of t...Rav Malinowitz clearly understands that a lot of the gimmel people are engaging in daas torah terrorism.<BR/><BR/>Baruch Hashem Rav Malinowitz is showing us a derech of frum normalcy.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-58646828730744426082008-11-11T10:29:00.000+02:002008-11-11T10:29:00.000+02:00Kol hakavod to Rav Malinowitz in his battle agains...Kol hakavod to Rav Malinowitz in his battle against the daas toyrah terrorists!<BR/><BR/>Lerner for mayor!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-65553095873886693642008-11-11T10:21:00.000+02:002008-11-11T10:21:00.000+02:00Bravo! Great post!Bravo! Great post!The Reish Galuta of the Geulahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13277553563744944539noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-3719669779330489792008-11-11T09:15:00.000+02:002008-11-11T09:15:00.000+02:00Outstanding Post.Ari EnkinOutstanding Post.<BR/><BR/><BR/>Ari EnkinAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-51151507735158431872008-11-11T07:05:00.000+02:002008-11-11T07:05:00.000+02:00Rafi-Thank you for finally writing in clear Englis...Rafi-<BR/>Thank you for finally writing in clear English that which "everyone thinks but is afraid to say".<BR/>I am a supporter of TOV.<BR/>I know all the people involved with TOV.<BR/>And I know their intentions and their goals.<BR/><BR/>They are dedicated people who come from our neighborhood and who care passionately about everyone in our neighborhood.<BR/>All they want to do is HELP PEOPLE and give the PEOPLE A VOICE.<BR/>I know them well, and they all have Rabbonim that they talk to daily. Some of their Rabbonim might even be labeled as being from the Gimmel camp. But that doesn't matter to them. They are machshiv the rabbonim and their opinions.<BR/><BR/>The personal and cutting ads from Gimmel have hurt them and their families. Think about what a child thinks when he sees a letter from Rabbonim against his father, when he knows all his father is trying to do is help people. Was that child considered before ads were printed?<BR/><BR/>Each member of TOV has been told by multiple Rabbonim to stop the campaign and to go away. With almost no reason given except, "that you have to support Gimmel".<BR/><BR/>Gimmel, by its own accord, is the party of the Rabbonim and they are the representatives of the Rabbonim. That is a fine and holy task. They worry about the mosdot and many of the "ruchnius" issues that come up in politics. And with those issues they do a pretty good job.<BR/>But they do not, by their own admission, represent the people. And that's their right.<BR/>They are, in a way, are asking us to DONATE our votes to them.<BR/>Some tzedakos ask for money, GIMMEL is asking for your vote.<BR/>If you are willing to donate your say for the next five years to them, <BR/>then vote Gimmel. (But make sure to ask for a receipt)<BR/><BR/>But, if you support the work of Gimmel, but you want to have your voice heard about some things that go on in this city <BR/>or you feel there are other issues that Gimmel does not deal with at all, that need to be dealt with, <BR/>then you have a right to vote TOV.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com