tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post3098099190636710638..comments2024-03-28T09:43:50.919+02:00Comments on Life in Israel: Taking it out on the kid is wrongRafi G.http://www.blogger.com/profile/00699851287106903971noreply@blogger.comBlogger41125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-84851977707210390892009-12-24T15:14:29.483+02:002009-12-24T15:14:29.483+02:00tichel pushed too far back - I thought maybe that ...tichel pushed too far back - I thought maybe that meant it just slipped a few centimeters beyond where she'd like it, yet in true form the neighbors ratted on her when they saw her that way as she reached up to open the garbage contraption and made it into a major big deal like she disregards tznius.<br /><br />but Anon's approach - excluding people who might ever-so-slightly affect your children negatively - is classic charedi schooling nowadays. never mind how it got to be that way, but those of us who consider ourselves charedi but also like open-mindedness, realize that in the long run such attitudes harm our chilren's mitzvos and midos in other ways.<br /><br />you have to choose one approach or the other. for now the charedi approach is to keep raising the walls, and whoever is out, is out.Shiranoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-47568642782749126142009-12-24T00:58:52.819+02:002009-12-24T00:58:52.819+02:00I have learned the halachot of kisui ROSH (not se&...I have learned the halachot of kisui ROSH (not se'ar, ROSH) myself and there are plenty of MO poskim who hold that the halacha is covering the crown of the head, not the hair, because they don't consider hair to be ervah (which is why little girls and unmarried women aren't required to cover their hair, like the Rambam says) and that covering the head is also a symbol of marriage, again, nothing to do with hair being ervah. Again, nothing you would hold by. <br /><br /><br />I have lived here for one decade and am well aware of the politics at the beginning of the state. However, to make a statement that the secular would constantly pushing out the religious is simply absurd when there has always existed a state religious school system and the religious run marriage and divorce. Use a little sechel.<br /><br />If you don't want a core curriculum, don't take state money. It's that simple. If you hate the government, stop taking their money Right, that government who despises the religious yet still supports kollelim and charedi schools, and still hands out child support payments to large charedi families. Hmm, I wonder why the secular might find it disturbing that charedim take loads of money but do almost nothing to support the state economically and don't serve in the army... Really a hard kashe!<br /><br />And no I would never send my daughter or son to a Satmar school because that isn't my community. This girl and her family are charedi, from what i've heard. She's not a chiloni or even a DL who has no relation to your community. Your analogy makes no sense.Commenter Abbihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07753256568022159103noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-90603051092745167272009-12-23T20:44:33.002+02:002009-12-23T20:44:33.002+02:00Commentator Abbi: it's me, the brainwashed one...Commentator Abbi: it's me, the brainwashed one<br />I have lived here for almost 2 decades. I encourage you: SPEAK with Israelis, secular and religious, and find out the history. If you have, I find your post to be a bit naive.<br />You say: there has always been religious education<br />Imagine the following situation, which was fairly common: Sephardim arrive in the 50s or 60s and they are settled in some Moshav or some development town. The Zionists decide there will be only one school there, a secular one. (In many cases, they only opened a technical school in these Moshavim, effectively preventing the people from gaining access to university: again SPEAK to people, find out). Now, you can't expect Joe Sephardi to jump into his car and bus his kids around, can you. He has nothing. He is stuck. <br />(As an aside, if you think Haredim don't like Sefardim, you should see the old-time Ashkenazi secular establishment types! Ever heard of the Black Panthers in Israel? How many Sephardim were represented in Mapai?)<br />I encourage you to watch, again and again, the videos of Amona. Watch an unarmed teenager having his skull smashed in by a Jewish policeman on a horse with a wooden club. Really: go watch it. Then watch the politicians defend the policeman, and see how many of them have been charged with anything. Do you find it hard to believe that they have a deep-rooted hatred for religion and religious people. Is it so hard for you to fathom that they would prevent religious education from immigrants they viewed as inferior.<br />When the Ministry of Education speaks about a "core curriculum", this is why the Haredim so staunchly oppose it. Would you trust one of those abusive policemen with your well-being? Should we entrust our spiritual well-being to the secular establishment?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-55370132491168045352009-12-23T20:28:00.591+02:002009-12-23T20:28:00.591+02:00even though it is a local school, and arent all sc...even though it is a local school, and arent all schools local to any given area, they take funding from the government (they are chinuch atzmai) and are therefore obligated by MoE rules.<br />One of those rules is that you have to accept any kid from the area that applies. I assume there are certain guidelines - a haredi school would not have to take a hioloni kid, I imagine, but in general as long as they can show they are somehow appropriate for the school they have to be accepted. <br /><br />The girl in question lives in an area where there is no such school - only a private school not bound by those rules. I dont know how the MoE decides things in such cases. Perhaps it is a range of kilometers form where she lives. The school in the Kirya was forced to take 4 other girls and was then full. I guess the next closest apprpriate school was this one. Or maybe it was within range and they decided on this one. <br /><br />you take money, you gotta follow the rules. Just because most of the time in the haredi community people will not enforce such a rule because it means going out of the system, sometimes it happens.Rafi G.https://www.blogger.com/profile/00699851287106903971noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-84101833615960029112009-12-23T20:12:35.939+02:002009-12-23T20:12:35.939+02:00The school in question is a local school who gets ...The school in question is a local school who gets kids from one select area of RBSA. Why do they HAVE to accept someone from outside their district just because that family wants to get in?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-83740876663726388252009-12-23T20:11:36.527+02:002009-12-23T20:11:36.527+02:00ABBI - "I would say a woman who doesn't c...ABBI - "I would say a woman who doesn't completely cover her hair is absolutely NOT completely disregarding bein adam l'makom"<br /><br />Please name some accepted poskim that the proper hanhaga is to expose hair. <br /><br />I have a right to insist on a lechatchila approach to tznius which is a core issue for me, as it is for the entire chareidi world.<br /><br />ABBI - "a mother who covers her hair slightly differently from you is committing an issur d'oreita in your eyes and should be put in cherem "<br /><br />A) Issurei Derabanan are also assur.<br />B) Did I mention a cherem against her or her family? I simply said I wouldnt want my daughter in a school with them? I feel they would be a negative influence in the area of Tznius.<br /><br />I am not sure why you equate ahavaas yisroel with being in the same school. I will reverse the tide. Assuming you could get into a Satmar school, would you send your child there? Why or why not? I would imagine that you wouldnt. Is it because you feel they are different, although you love them dearly? Thats why I wouldnt send to Satmar. Thats why I wouldnt send to MO or DL either.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-30221963210680404272009-12-23T15:41:08.667+02:002009-12-23T15:41:08.667+02:00LOZ - I knew when I wrote that that it was not cle...LOZ - I knew when I wrote that that it was not clear. That is not what I meant. I did not mean they shouldnt. I meant why fight to get in to a school that so badly doesnt want you? This school wasnt even the first choice for them. It is not like they always dreamed of being able to send to this school. They chose it because they couldnt get in to the other one, it is "frummie enough", it has a certain reputation. but they dont want her. so try to send the kid somehwere else. All the schools they tried to send to were ashkenaz. Not a single one was sfard. I dont care about mixing - I believe there is no difference between teh ashkenaz kids and the sfardi kids. I see them learning together and there are just as many good sfard as ashkenazy kids and just as many poor students among the ashkenazim as among the sfardim. there is no difference. Schools should not be based on ashkenaz or sfard.<br />but when a school vehemently refuses to accept, and the only reason you are trying is because it is ashkenaz, it does make me wonder what you have against the sfardi schoolsRafi G.https://www.blogger.com/profile/00699851287106903971noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-36789718392088264902009-12-23T15:36:18.553+02:002009-12-23T15:36:18.553+02:00RAFI:
"Maybe she is not at the same level - ...RAFI:<br /><br />"Maybe she is not at the same level - educationally or socially/spiritually, and therefore they oppose taking her. Just "<br /><br />bullony. what does it mean that the girl is not spiritually up to to par? whatever that means, let the school work a little and get her there.<br /><br />i don't understand how this is still an issue. the schools all take state money. the state should make it clear: either end the discrimination or suffer stiff fines. repeat offenders lose all funding permanently. period.<br /><br />"I still don't understand why sfardim insist on going to ashkenazy schools."<br /><br />that's nobody's business except for the parents'<br /><br />and 50 years ago would you have wondered why black parents insist on sending their kids to white schools?Lion of Zionhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10342299133387602141noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-23870919364344744662009-12-23T14:02:54.340+02:002009-12-23T14:02:54.340+02:00"While you are at it, please explain why this..."While you are at it, please explain why this is an example of "complete" disregard for bein asam l'chaveiro. Do you think that a woman whose hair is not covered properly shows a community's "comeplete" disregard for bein adam l'makom? Or is there room to overlook a disagreement in the name of something else?"<br /><br />Since there are many different pskei halacha regarding haircovering, I would say a woman who doesn't completely cover her hair is absolutely NOT completely disregarding bein adam l'makom. She is covering her hair according to the psak halacha she got from her rebbe. Therefore, shunning her and her daughter and not being dan l'kav schut (speaking of "kav hachinuch") is a blatant violation of bein adam l'chaveiro. But, if you don't believe there are multiple interpretations of halacha (clearly you don't) than of course, a mother who covers her hair slightly differently from you is committing an issur d'oreita in your eyes and should be put in cherem (or at least very very far away from your children). A perfect example of complete disregard of bein adam l'chavero. <br /><br />I am not twisting your words and I responded to exactly what you wrote and the spirit behind it. I wish you were an anomaly or a fringe element of the charedi community. Sadly, as Ahavas Yisrael corroborates, that is not the case. Until you open your eyes and realize how you're obsessing about the wrong mitzvot, we'll just have to wait that much longer for geula.<br /><br />Wanna Saab- I truly wish your words were true. But that is just not the case and I agree with Ahavas Yisrael. When ahavat yisrael really becomes a chiyuv in the charedi community, I think we'll be a lot closer to bringing the moshiach than we are now.Commenter Abbihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07753256568022159103noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-48295663754183225712009-12-23T13:42:13.479+02:002009-12-23T13:42:13.479+02:00Wanna,
As a member of the Charedi world I feel th...Wanna,<br /><br />As a member of the Charedi world I feel that I can comment. You are correct in saying that it isn't the entire Charedi world but yes as an establishment it is. There is no question that a lack of tolerance exists in the Charedi world at all levels.<br /><br />While such intolerance can be found among the DL/MO/Chardal as well as an establishment it is not the same.<br /><br />Case in point: many DL/MO/Chardal generously support Charedi run institutions. Charedi institutions put their posters, flyers, etc in DL shuls, buildings and schools. You will very hard pressed to find the literature of DL/MO/Chardal organizations in a Charedi area. Not because of tzniyus, etc. Just because they are DL.<br /><br />In our own wonderful world of RBSA we see this on a regular basis. Charedi PR is all over. yet when I daven in certain shuls or walk my kid to gan on certain streets all you might see of the other PR is torn or ripped corners.<br /><br />By and large there is much more tolerance in the non Charedi world and this can't be argued.<br /><br />A parent in a "mixed" area who sends their kid to a more charedi school will not be shunned by neighbors but G-d Forbid if you send your child to a school that isn't "on the list".<br /><br />We in the CFharedi world could learn from our fellow Jews how to love and be more tolerant. perhaps it will be a mirror effect.Ahavas Yisrael...Klal GADOLnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-29144387471858462872009-12-23T13:26:17.448+02:002009-12-23T13:26:17.448+02:00Not to nitpick: I was just giving an example of w...Not to nitpick: I was just giving an example of where parents might reach their own conclusions since the school never gave them a reason. I wasn't commenting on that example per se. Now you started a whole new tirade. <br /><br />Abbi and Ahavas: First thing I'll say is I agree with you about the importance of bein adam l'chavero. But it's interesting that you're on the soapbox about that while in the same sentence accusing the entire charedi community of violating it. True there are some, I'll say even many who do, but painting the entire community with that brush is decidedly anti bein adam l'chavero.<br /><br />By the way, Ahavas, it's not ALL He wants. I think tzniyus and kashrus are on His list too.Wanna Saabhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11564440024185263043noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-86947403195636231152009-12-23T13:19:51.384+02:002009-12-23T13:19:51.384+02:00Abbi - you seem to be able to twist any words that...Abbi - you seem to be able to twist any words that I say around to make it out that I stand for sinas chinam. Congratulations. Youre a real star.<br /><br />I will reply to you, but only if you discuss my arguements (desiring a standard of tzniyus for my kids school, and trusting the kashrus and the kav hachinuch of someone who willing and publicly defies the halachos of chilul hashem).<br /><br />Until you are able to coherently express why these desires are so infuriation, I will simply accuse you of chareidi bashing and sinas chinam against chareidim.<br /><br />While you are at it, please explain why this is an example of "complete" disregard for bein asam l'chaveiro. Do you think that a woman whose hair is not covered properly shows a community's "comeplete" disregard for bein adam l'makom? Or is there room to overlook a disagreement in the name of something else?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-45190807383826763442009-12-23T12:29:24.371+02:002009-12-23T12:29:24.371+02:00Abbi,
RIGHT ON THE MONEY!!!
Why do Charedim bemo...Abbi,<br /><br />RIGHT ON THE MONEY!!!<br /><br />Why do Charedim bemoan that moshiach isn't here then do everything they can to keep him away?<br /><br />Why is tehillim,fasting,more tzniyus,mehadrin kashrus the response to tragedy rather than stregthening bein adom l'chaveiro.<br /><br />All HKB''H wants is a little love and respect among His children.Ahavas Yisroel..Klal GADOLnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-67688789223908305832009-12-23T11:47:32.423+02:002009-12-23T11:47:32.423+02:00of course. that is the only reason they could forc...of course. that is the only reason they could force them via the MoE to accept the girlRafi G.https://www.blogger.com/profile/00699851287106903971noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-33265265844417992852009-12-23T11:41:38.830+02:002009-12-23T11:41:38.830+02:00Hey Rafi, does this school get public funds? Than...Hey Rafi, does this school get public funds? Thanks.Earn money from home!noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-18242701745186911192009-12-23T09:19:09.964+02:002009-12-23T09:19:09.964+02:00And not to nitpick, but refusing to send your daug...And not to nitpick, but refusing to send your daughter to school with a girl whose mother pushes her tichel too far back will not get you any closer to olam haba. In fact, this blatant example of sinat chinam will probably push you much farther back. <br /><br />Rafi, this is a perfect example of what makes the charedi community so infuriating. The complete disregard for bein adam l'chaveiro, the sinat chinam in the name of making sure everyone has every strand of hair covered (ie: everything on the outside must look right, but the inside can be garbage). <br /><br />You seem not to have succumbed to this, but your neighbors don't seem to be so lucky.Commenter Abbihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07753256568022159103noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-1832371717705392232009-12-23T09:09:22.465+02:002009-12-23T09:09:22.465+02:00Ok, let's have a little logic- you don't t...Ok, let's have a little logic- you don't trust this family's kashrut because they really want her to go to a particular charedi school? Does that make any sense? You don't agree with their "kav hachinuch" because they want her to to be educated by the same teachers as your daughters? So the teachers are good enough for your daughters but not theirs? <br /><br />Wow, the only chillul hashem here is the school's behavior and your statements.Commenter Abbihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07753256568022159103noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-28080343856497482172009-12-23T09:05:02.633+02:002009-12-23T09:05:02.633+02:00Anonymous 11:42, what are you talking about? There...Anonymous 11:42, what are you talking about? There has been a public religious schools system since the state was established? The rabbanut has been in charge of marriage and divorce since the state was established. Just because you were brainwashed by charedi lies doesn't make them true. <br /><br />And comparing the Jewish state's government to the Polish who were only too happy to see Jews slaughtered in state sanctioned pogroms and the Shoah itself is the ultimate loshon hara (just like the spies in the Torah). You should be ashamed of yourself.Commenter Abbihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07753256568022159103noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-88056961197512410742009-12-23T08:56:00.223+02:002009-12-23T08:56:00.223+02:00"Well what if you don't have the right pr..."Well what if you don't have the right protexia? So you threaten to go to the press, the authorities, R' Shteinman, the president, whatever it takes to get your kid in school"<br /><br />Rav Shteinman yes. The rest no - not if it constitutes an issur and is a chillul hashem.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-9476940876431291272009-12-23T08:54:53.314+02:002009-12-23T08:54:53.314+02:00Not to nitpick but why is "because the mother...Not to nitpick but why is "because the mother's tichel was pushed too far back" not a good reason?<br /><br />I wouldnt want my girl in a class where the mother doesnt cover her hair properly?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-25370183987654606642009-12-23T08:53:11.343+02:002009-12-23T08:53:11.343+02:00A) The schools often have reasons not to accept ce...A) The schools often have reasons not to accept certain kids to their schools. They cant give out information since that often reveals who told the schools the info - which neighbor, a co-worker etc.<br /><br />B) The school did say that the kid is not mat'im and wanted to leave it at that. <br /><br />C) Again, the parents have no neemanus on what RAYLS said. Do you think that the school was protesting against RAYLS? Does that make sense to you.<br /><br />D) I dont know why they did not state the reason, though I imagine it has to do with a) not wanting to get into a fight about a detail; b) sometimes there is just a feeling from a few incidents / issues, and talking about it lends it self to "pikpuk" over the individual issues, and ignores the "sum of the parts" ; c) not wanting the sources leaked or found out.<br /><br />E) Even so, there are dinim and halachos. Someone who blatanly goes against halacha here - in order to get a chareidi chinuch - is someone who is not mat'im for this school. <br /><br />-) I did not mean to come against you. I dont even know you. I was just saying that your information was incorrect<br /><br />--) From what I understood RAYLS told both sides they are right - presumably another case of "how you ask the question" They were supposed to go back to him and I did not hear that they did. Dont know about that<br /><br />---) I dont think its fair to say that they "publicly threatened all sorts of nastiness" - I live here and have a kid in the school and have not heard or seen any such proclamations.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-84387448353835642542009-12-23T02:42:30.802+02:002009-12-23T02:42:30.802+02:00Saab - I understand the idea of being non-confront...Saab - I understand the idea of being non-confrontational. But that works when the parent tries to call and say why did you not accept my kid, so they try to avoid answering. That excuse does not work when the story already makes the local press and national media, gets the MoE involved, and when the vaad horim makes the students go on strike to protest her forced acceptance. By then they are way past the non-confrontational stage.Rafi G.https://www.blogger.com/profile/00699851287106903971noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-28190733340817330152009-12-23T02:04:31.929+02:002009-12-23T02:04:31.929+02:00"d. if the kid and family is not matim, that ..."d. if the kid and family is not matim, that is fine. say so. say why, without disparaging them as you say. Schools reject kids all the time all around the worl because the kid or family is not appropriate for the school. Usually the school says so, and even says why."<br /><br />Not always. I've heard stories where parents apply to a school for their kid and the school doesn't give them any answer at all. The parents call, the mazkirah says they have to speak to the menahel, but he's in a meeting. They call again, he's out of town. They call again, he's sitting shiva. They call again, he's in another meeting. They don't want to tell the parent no because they don't want to get into the whys of that no. So they just avoid the confrontation altogether and let the parents draw their own conclusions. So the parents conclude it must be because we're sfardi, because the father wore a coloured shirt, because the mother's tichel was pushed too far back, because the kid's kippah was too small. <br /><br />Why, you asked, don't they just choose a different school? You get your heart set on a school you think is best for your kid, and then see how you like being told to find another one, but without any understanding of why the one you chose won't take your kid. <br /><br />What if this was the US and the secret reason why they wouldn't take a kid was because he was Black? The parents would flare up and say, "You can't do this to me!" and bring out the arsenal of weapons - press, NAACP, ACLU, courts, etc. <br /><br />Similarly here in Israel, we all know that sometimes you have to play their game to get into the school you want. They'll tell you no, but if you have the right protexia, you can push and they'll take you. Well what if you don't have the right protexia? So you threaten to go to the press, the authorities, R' Shteinman, the president, whatever it takes to get your kid in school. <br /><br />It's possible these parents would not normally resort to such actions as going to secular courts, but if they (correctly or incorrectly) concluded it was because they were Sfardi, well that's an insult they won't take lying down. I can see that being so infuriating it would make them do things they normally wouldn't, such as going to the secular courts. They're going to challenge this injustice in any way they can. <br /><br />In short, I have no idea what really happened.Wanna Saabhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11564440024185263043noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-63704155113329647292009-12-23T00:44:19.243+02:002009-12-23T00:44:19.243+02:00"Do you really think that the school should p..."Do you really think that the school should publicize all the shmutz that they find out about each family that they dont accept? Isnt that Lashon Hara?"<br /><br />Real shmutz or made up Charedi shmutz?<br /><br />I recall a few years ago when the reps of a certain organization were spreading that a competing organization didn't have Da'as Torah. This motzei shem ra was done to garner financial support. There was a "mainstream" charedi organization making up things to besmirch another.<br /><br />Certain Charedi rabbonim tell their flocks to boycott tzedaka organizations when it comes to giving (they're treif,etc) but give full encouragement to the so called treif assistance.<br /><br />Selective cherem to serve thier needs.<br /><br />Schools do this all of the time to justify their racist policies as well.RBSA for Allnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-62653335535652473442009-12-23T00:40:54.090+02:002009-12-23T00:40:54.090+02:00a. I dont need proof. I myself said I dont know th...a. I dont need proof. I myself said I dont know that it is racism. I suggested alternative possibilities, but was wondering why nothing was said.<br />b. no shmutz needs to be revealed. they could give a very general reason that would be vague enough but specific enough and leave it at vehamyven yavin. <br />c. the fact/rumor of Rav Shteinman saying the school should accept the parents was originally claimed by the parents, as far as I know, and later admitted to by the principal. I remember reading it in the papers and was told it was also mentioned on the radio (I did not hear the program myself)<br />d. if the kid and family is not matim, that is fine. say so. say why, without disparaging them as you say. Schools reject kids all the time all around the worl because the kid or family is not appropriate for the school. Usually the school says so, and even says why. I have no problem with it not being racism. I didnt accuse them of racism. I suggested an alternative. Just wondering why they did not state the reason.<br />e. yes, they went to the secular press and ministry. I am not defending them, just playing devils advocate - parents do whatever they can when they feel they are up against a wall. I dont know why they insisted on sending to a school, schools actually, that didnt want them. I dont know why they did not instead look for a school that was willing to take them without a fight. But regardless of that, and yes the parents are to blame for that, and I said so, they could easily have felt their backs to the wall, the kid hadnt been in school for months already, and this was a last resoirt. I am aware of other cases that parents, heiishe parents in similar situations where a kid was refused to a regular Bais Yaakov, also used the rule of the MoE that a neighborhood school (including Chinuch Atzmai) has to accept anybody from the community in order to get their respective kids in. Parents do that when their backs are against the wall and maybe they dont agree with the reasons for their being rejected. Again, I am not justifying it, but it does happen.<br /><br />you write your response as if you are fighting with me that I think it is racism and you know the real reason. I never claimed racism. The press did. I suggested that it likely might not be, and there might be very valid reasons for it, and I wondered why the reasons were not publicized (at least in general terms) when it became a fight. They can't give the reason,. but they can publicly threaten all sorts of nastiness?<br /><br />The only thing open is the issue with Rav Shteinman. I only know what I heard, and read, and you did not claim otherwise other than asking why he would go against Rav Shteinman and therefore he obviously did not. I dont know why he would. Again, the minahelet was quoted as admitting that Rav Shteinman told them to take the girl in. More than that I dont know. Perhaps she was misquoted. Perhaps he recanted. Perhaps it was made up. You tell me. You are saying ti didn't happen. So explain to me what Rav Shteinman said.<br />Other than that last point, we pretty much agree.Rafi G.https://www.blogger.com/profile/00699851287106903971noreply@blogger.com