tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post4338270665181234261..comments2024-03-28T18:05:05.267+02:00Comments on Life in Israel: Mehadrin bus decisionRafi G.http://www.blogger.com/profile/00699851287106903971noreply@blogger.comBlogger12125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-78691723549344707542009-05-19T02:04:00.000+03:002009-05-19T02:04:00.000+03:00I am disappointed to the ostrich head in the sand ...I am disappointed to the ostrich head in the sand leadership taken by the court.<br /><br />Mehadrin buses are either legal or illegal. If they are legal than say so. The court is saying people could sit wherever they want. If that is the case Egged has an obligation to protect their customers from any harassment both verbal and physical. <br /><br />Although this keeps being potrayed as a serious issue, I am still waiting for the Rabbanim to step up and assur riding on mixed buses.ehwhyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06436676108396672275noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-34232734831521130182009-05-18T23:23:00.000+03:002009-05-18T23:23:00.000+03:00mrsrbs - IMHO any culture should have the right to...mrsrbs - IMHO any culture should have the right to keep and maintain whatever "tradition" they believe to be an integral part of their culture.<br />the fact that I think this is all made up and fake does not mean they believe that. if they believe that it is a necessary part of their culture, than they should be allowed to maintain their culture. Yes, Arabs should be allowed to maintain their culture as well.<br /><br />That is, as long as they do not impose their lifestyle on me, or anyone else who is not interested. <br /><br />As long as I can take a bus and sit near my wife, it does not bother me that someone else wants to take a bus and not sit next to his wife.<br /><br /><br />However, the court is basing the ruling on the MOT statement that their is no such thing as a mehadrin bus, but people are choosing to sit where they want. That means there are no rules. you just have to be willing to stand up to people telling you to move back and separate. All you have to say is that this is nto a mehadrin bus and you choose to sit in front.Rafi G.https://www.blogger.com/profile/00699851287106903971noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-68784003743433272522009-05-18T23:07:00.000+03:002009-05-18T23:07:00.000+03:00wow. I completely disagree with you Rafi. So I gu...wow. I completely disagree with you Rafi. So I guess your argument would hold true if it were say, Muslim Fundamentalists? I think not. If there was a bus full of burqa clad ladies and a 'regular' lady got on the bus, you would demand that she cover up? <br /><br />You are so used to accepting the Chareidi argument as justified (even if you yourself do not abide by it), that you are 'ok' with it. It is NOT ok to carve out a little niche where you impose your extremist ideas on others. It is NEVER ok.<br /><br />I should be able to ride ANY bus at ANY time within a western democratic state and not have to worry about this.<br /><br />Why do we bend over backwards for these people? This is not to be respected. Sticking a 'religious freedom' sticker on this issue does not make it ok. I will never respect this. <br /><br />This is NOT Judaism.MrsRBSnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-2251567616958634622009-05-18T12:15:00.000+03:002009-05-18T12:15:00.000+03:00that fight I have not understood, which is why I s...that fight I have not understood, which is why I stayed away from it. While I see no reason to invalidate the geirus, I think it is a bad situation for the supreme court to get involved in halachic decisions and telling the beis din what they can and cannot do.Rafi G.https://www.blogger.com/profile/00699851287106903971noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-77568076427825637812009-05-18T11:56:00.000+03:002009-05-18T11:56:00.000+03:00bagatz seems busy with the haredim-
http://www.yn...bagatz seems busy with the haredim-<br /><br />http://www.ynet.co.il/articles/0,7340,L-3717436,00.htmlJeremynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-46477969988886649722009-05-18T11:39:00.000+03:002009-05-18T11:39:00.000+03:00the thing is he did not say mehadrin buses are ok....the thing is he did not say mehadrin buses are ok. He said that basically the Ministry of Transportation claims there are no such thing. They do not operate them officially. They do not choose where people should sit, and if people should choose to sit like that, that is their choice. <br /><br />If the bus is not run like that by MOT, what can Supreme Court do? Somebody would have to sue the "haredim" to get them to not enforce such an arranegement.<br /><br />It leaves it open to too many problems and everybody will say it is not us - it is unofficial.Rafi G.https://www.blogger.com/profile/00699851287106903971noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-19461128683561351222009-05-18T11:36:00.000+03:002009-05-18T11:36:00.000+03:00not G.
Rafi my argument is that the state should ...not G.<br /><br />Rafi my argument is that the state should oppose it even in "homogeneous" areas because it is allowing extremists to abuse weaker people who are forced to give in their civil liberties. <br /><br />The only way to prevent "future difficulties" is to hit the extremists, not support them. Giving in just increases their appetite.Rafi (S)https://www.blogger.com/profile/18103892755392538611noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-90512749487449055972009-05-18T11:30:00.000+03:002009-05-18T11:30:00.000+03:00Jeremy - thank you. and his not dealing with those...Jeremy - thank you. and his not dealing with those issues will just lead to future problems<br /><br />Rafi - as I said, as long as they are not pushing it on others. If there is a homogenous community, they should be able to do it. In Mea Shearim it seems like it might be ok (as long as it is just a Mea Shearim based route. <br />Maybe some other places as well.<br />In other places, there should at least be reasonable alternatives if such buses will be in place.Rafi G.https://www.blogger.com/profile/00699851287106903971noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-55333238137041562462009-05-18T11:14:00.000+03:002009-05-18T11:14:00.000+03:00For whatever reason the link isn't posting- here's...For whatever reason the link isn't posting- here's the entire text of the decision:<br /><br /> <br />החלטה<br /> <br /> <br /> לאחר עיון בבקשה לצו ביניים ובתגובות, ובמיוחד בתגובת המשיב 1 המלווה בתצהיר מר יהודה אלבז, מנהל אגף בכיר במשרד התחבורה, איני רואה מקום לצו הביניים המבוקש. אני יוצא מההנחה שההסדרים הנוהגים עתה על פי החלטת מר אלבז מ-9.12.08 יקוימו גם בהמשך (לפי הודעת המשיב 1 מ-11.12.08).<br /> <br /> ניתנה היום, כ' באייר התשס"ט (14.5.09).<br /> <br /> <br />ש ו פ טJeremynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-18302006429790646502009-05-18T11:12:00.000+03:002009-05-18T11:12:00.000+03:00not G.
The "let them live how they want to" is an...not G.<br /><br />The "let them live how they want to" is an argument based on a fallacy, namely that that is the way "they" want to live. The vast majority of haredi people are being cajoled into this ridiculous and baseless arrangement by a relatively small group of vocal bullies.<br /><br />Further to this is the question of whether the state can condone behavior it considers abusive just because the victim of the behavior has given his/her permission to be abused. Even if it is being done in the name of religious freedom (a liberal concept that the perpetrators do not subscribe to for others).Rafi (S)https://www.blogger.com/profile/18103892755392538611noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-55516114633809239652009-05-18T11:05:00.000+03:002009-05-18T11:05:00.000+03:00Sorry- didn't post properly
http://elyon1.court.g...Sorry- didn't post properly<br /><br />http://elyon1.court.gov.il/files/07/460/007/t21/07007460.t21.htmJeremynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-85913075328991741442009-05-18T11:03:00.000+03:002009-05-18T11:03:00.000+03:00Here's the decision-
He didn't discuss any of the...Here's the decision-<br /><br />He didn't discuss any of the issues, simply rejected the petition.<br /><br />http://elyon1.court.gov.il/files/07/460/007/t21/07007460.t21.htmJeremynoreply@blogger.com