tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post4446876525049442014..comments2024-03-28T18:05:05.267+02:00Comments on Life in Israel: Why I Don't Eat Kitniyot On PesachRafi G.http://www.blogger.com/profile/00699851287106903971noreply@blogger.comBlogger21125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-57642405566617997342011-05-12T22:35:29.604+03:002011-05-12T22:35:29.604+03:00Just noticed this posting.
Just wanted to pipe i...Just noticed this posting. <br /><br />Just wanted to pipe in that Rav David Bar-Hayim is a gaon whose goal is following the Torah and serving Hashem in the most truthful and honest way possible.Ricknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-59291570135984106302011-04-21T10:25:49.978+03:002011-04-21T10:25:49.978+03:00Noga -
I've heard a lot of reasons for the min...Noga -<br />I've heard a lot of reasons for the minhag of avoiding kitniyot on Pesach before, but never that one. Where did you hear that?<br /><br />I've heard that there was concern that uneducated Jews (both men and women) would be confused if they saw scholars/rabbis/etc using what looked like flour. But that's only one explanation; most explanations have to do with the differences between how farming and trading was done in Europe vs. the Middle East (eg. crop rotation vs. no crop rotation, using the same bag for multiple products vs. not).<br /><br />Bottom line, nobody knows for sure. I don't think it's right to state that it was definitely about mistrusting women.oranoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-40147889132262870892011-04-21T10:20:23.714+03:002011-04-21T10:20:23.714+03:00Anonymous -
Don't lump Rabbi Bar-Hayyim and R...Anonymous - <br />Don't lump Rabbi Bar-Hayyim and Rav Leshem together, they're saying totally different things. Rabbi Leshem is saying that Ashkenazi minhag allows Ashkenazim to eat foods that contain kitniyot that cannot be seen and is not the majority of the food; Rabbi Bar-Hayyim is suggesting doing away with the minhag altogether and eating any kind of kitniyot (something Rav Leshem does not recommend).oranoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-24256079507472474172011-04-20T10:12:03.432+03:002011-04-20T10:12:03.432+03:00I'm not gonna eat kitniyot during passover, th...I'm not gonna eat kitniyot during passover, then have to atone by dojung an entire month of Slichos!<br /><br />Besides, no mater how long I lay out for, I just can't get tan enough to be a sefardi!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-81553325127744649302011-04-19T22:07:25.542+03:002011-04-19T22:07:25.542+03:00Shaya,
It is important to follow a Rav, who is abl...Shaya,<br />It is important to follow a Rav, who is able to adjust for multiple variables. My Rabbi has been stumped on a number of occasions and referred to the appropriate Gadol. <br /><br />Chacham Tzvi has been getting a lot of play in the last little while. <br /><br />I had a Rabbi in Yeshiva who every year at the start of the Seder, his FIL would clop on the table and announce the family minhag is to eat gebrochs. Then they wouldn't.<br /><br />Kitniot is not Chametz. That doesn't mean I should intentionally try to eat it or throw away a minhag not to eat it. <br /><br />You forgot to answer the RRBH question.ehwhyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06436676108396672275noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-33666158187508233612011-04-18T22:13:56.211+03:002011-04-18T22:13:56.211+03:00ehwhy,
I find it admirable that you manage to fol...ehwhy,<br /><br />I find it admirable that you manage to follow one rav through thick and thin. But, even many rabbonim ask other poskim for a collection of answers to glean from their reasons to create their own, or just find out the general consesus. So rigidly following one rav isn't really a rule. <br /><br />What I meant by returning to halacha is this: The halacha was x is chametz and y is not. As one item became questionable, they accepted to avoid it under the term kitniyot. by returning to the basic and start eating kitniyot, you are not taking on someone elses minhag, you are returning to the original halacha that the item was really kosher l'pesach to begin with. as opposed to one day waiting 3 hours and the next day waiting 6. That is a change in minhagim.shaya gnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-33284922575238919272011-04-18T09:30:08.281+03:002011-04-18T09:30:08.281+03:00shaya,
Who is RRBH?
While others may not, I try t...shaya,<br />Who is RRBH?<br /><br />While others may not, I try to be consistant to the best of my abilities with how I follow the Torah. My Rabbi considers himself to be a "meat and potatoes" type of Rabbi. Decisions are made following the halachic process. It is important not to shop around for the answers I like. Trust me, I have had some tough shilohs in recent weeks. <br /><br />I am not quite sure how rejecting my minhag is a return to basic halacha. What other cases would such logic apply?ehwhyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06436676108396672275noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-83781588102642588932011-04-18T05:09:49.561+03:002011-04-18T05:09:49.561+03:00ehwhy,
another thought, by starting to eat qitniy...ehwhy,<br /><br />another thought, by starting to eat qitniyot, we are not "accepting" anothers minhag, but in fact, simply returning to our most basic halachot!shaya gnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-84016401481807786232011-04-18T05:05:33.676+03:002011-04-18T05:05:33.676+03:00ehwhy,
while noble in iodea, the fact is many jew...ehwhy,<br /><br />while noble in iodea, the fact is many jews lead their lives in such a manner. how many use so many heterim of R' Moshe, yet use timers on shabbos, for which he was against? the fact is as Jews we look to make our lives easier and more comfortable, while looking to rely on a generally accepted authority. unfortunately, RRBH isn't widely accepted for whatever reasons and so, the O world has not gotten behind this en masse.shaya gnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-67745573143845890022011-04-18T04:46:28.061+03:002011-04-18T04:46:28.061+03:00Noga,
what's ironic about your sarcasm is th...Noga, <br /><br />what's ironic about your sarcasm is the only reason we are allowed to eat in another yids home is because there is a mashgiach we trust. In most if not almost every case, that is the wife! yet for kitniyot, she'd become confused? chumra judaism constantly makes me laugh. what is even funnier are the people who try to spin these things to sound logical.shaya gnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-60529776143109196662011-04-18T04:43:26.426+03:002011-04-18T04:43:26.426+03:00'Maybe one day he will generate debate among h...'Maybe one day he will generate debate among halachic scholars, and a consensus will be arrived at that says the original takana is no longer relevant, either due to our presence in Eretz Yisrael, or for other reasons, and then I will eat kitniyot as well. Until then, I see no need.'<br /><br />I can not tell you how many 'halachic scholars' I have approached over the years who could care less about the subject. They are more than happy to remain unflinching and unchanging on a myriad of subjects, kitniyot included. The reason you should eat kitniyot in my opinion is that there is no reason not to. Rice is quite yummy.Hillelnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-55602513799267068492011-04-18T02:21:08.315+03:002011-04-18T02:21:08.315+03:00Ribbi Dhawidh bar Hhayeem always struck me as just...Ribbi Dhawidh bar Hhayeem always struck me as just a wee bit too Wahhabist for my liking.S.http://onthemainline.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-4975769489087501652011-04-18T00:46:23.589+03:002011-04-18T00:46:23.589+03:00Rafi, I think the bottom line is minhag hamaqom vs...Rafi, I think the bottom line is minhag hamaqom vs. minhag avoth.<br /><br />My understanding is that there is no halachic support for the power that Jews now place on minhag avoth.<br /><br />There are several misused sources to support it (TY Arachin "minhag avothehem referring only to 2 days of yom tov, "minhag yisrael kehalacha" misuapplied, and several others), but that's all.<br /><br />I have pressed RBH to present him case for minhagei hamqom overriding any previous notions of minhagei avoth (for which there have been several psychological and sociological reasons to follow, but not halachic ones), and that evidence of the minhagim which existed in Eretz yisrael 1000 years is sufficient to begin re-establishing minhagei hamaqom. Yet, he does not currently see this as necessary, anymore than what he is already doing. I will continue to press him on this, as I believe it will answer many questions and raise some additional questions which need to be discussed and debated.<br /><br />In the meantime, I will leave with a quote from him, I heard personally:<br /><br />"There is no hovah to eat qitniyoth during Pesah."<br /><br />Hag Kasher weSame'ah!Esser Agarothhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12853681733864707489noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-61286514000117306872011-04-17T19:40:03.570+03:002011-04-17T19:40:03.570+03:00Rafi,
You shouldn't give this guy any credenc...Rafi,<br /><br />You shouldn't give this guy any credence. Don't mention him. He is megaleh panim b'Torah shelo k'halacha. Did you hear the recent shiur from R' herschel Schachter of YU? He speaks very strongly about listening to gedolei Torah. The ga'ava of Bar-Chayim and Leshem is unprecedented. Those that give him PR are aiding and abbetting.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-28477353817492139492011-04-17T16:02:35.424+03:002011-04-17T16:02:35.424+03:00As Rosh Hashanah approaches, we don't see a bi...As Rosh Hashanah approaches, we don't see a big push to adopt the "minhag Eretz Yirsael" and say slichot for the whole month of Elul. <br /><br />When that happens, I will no longer question the motivation of people who promote the concept of universal minhag once a year.ehwhyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06436676108396672275noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-36265301556986795122011-04-17T14:41:34.681+03:002011-04-17T14:41:34.681+03:00Mikeage,
My intention is not to throw a pure &quo...Mikeage,<br /><br />My intention is not to throw a pure "guilt by association" sucker punch, but to point out that RDBH and others are using the same methodology employed by the Masorati movement over 20 years ago to do away with a minhag.<br /><br />If the Masorati movement would have first come up with this in the age of the internet (while still beating RDBH to the punch), it would have been widely disseminated with as their idea. There's little doubt in my mind that any serious Jew considering himself Orthodox would have gotten behind it. I think that the only reason it took off the way it did, despite having non-Orthodox roots, is because the Masorati responsum was relatively obscure at the time.yoni r.noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-51713500623315632072011-04-17T14:41:21.516+03:002011-04-17T14:41:21.516+03:00The abstention from kitniot became a binding rulin...The abstention from kitniot became a binding ruling when rabbis decided that housewives cannot be trusted with them. Kitniot, when ground, look like flour and the stupid housewife/woman who cooks may confuse between the two flours and use, God forbid, wheat flour instead. So to remove any possibility of any mistake, the rabbis ruled: no kitniot!<br /><br />Apparently Sephardic rabbis have more confidence in the acumen and awareness of their women folk than Ashkenazi rabbis do.Noganoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-79788299955041003042011-04-17T14:23:54.389+03:002011-04-17T14:23:54.389+03:00There may be overlap with Conservative, but to att...There may be overlap with Conservative, but to attribute any significance to that is, IMHO, just as non-halachic as calling something wrong because it's galuti ;)Mikeagehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15827275300296295639noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-83834409625416574802011-04-17T14:20:34.909+03:002011-04-17T14:20:34.909+03:00I hear what you are saying. I guess as long as the...I hear what you are saying. I guess as long as they are not giving the issue the opportunity to be debated in a halachic forum, then the slippery slope issue is real. If it was being debated and considered properly, then that would worry me less.Rafi G.https://www.blogger.com/profile/00699851287106903971noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-75962479827448166932011-04-17T14:16:05.034+03:002011-04-17T14:16:05.034+03:00I discovered recently that in 1989, the Israeli on...I discovered recently that in 1989, the Israeli onservative movement unanimously passed a resolution eliminating the minhag of Kitniyot for Ashkenazim in Israel (<a href="http://people.hofstra.edu/Daniel_J_Greenwood/ganzehgalus/4.pdf" rel="nofollow">original Hebrew</a> and <a href="http://www.responsafortoday.com/engsums/3_4.htm" rel="nofollow">English summary</a>). What's interesting about this, is that the halachik arguments, which seem to be in line with those used by the Conservative movement to do away with other halachot, are remarkably similar to those used by Rav David Bar-Hayim and <a href="http://www.haaretz.com/weekend/anglo-file/efrat-rabbi-tilts-against-passover-food-restrictions-for-ashkenazi-jews-1.356076" rel="nofollow">Rabbi Zvi Leshem</a> (except for the whole "galut mentality" business, which I don't really think is halachically based, and, if valid, could be used to write off a number of other minhagim which are more or less universally adhered to).<br /><br />This is not to say that those who permit kitniyot are Conservatives, but it's instructive that the Conservative movement did start out as a religiously-right response to the Reform movement, and has slid to the left since. Abolishing any minhag may lead us down a slippery slope to a place that many of us would never dream we'd find ourselves.yoni r.noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-30640775071912055452011-04-17T14:05:45.482+03:002011-04-17T14:05:45.482+03:00The question of one minhag hamakom in NY was discu...The question of one minhag hamakom in NY was discussed extensively at the time. For that matter, the issue of European Jews adopting minhag E"Y [which is really a bit of a misnomer, if you look at the sizes of the yishuv before the late 1800s vs. the Aliyah that took place after it] was also discussed at the time.<br /><br />I also agree that I'd prefer discussions in techumim, etc., and not newspapers. Or if Machon Shilo stressed that they attempt to re-instate classic minhag E"Y vs. "whose groundbreaking psak permitted kitniyot...".<br /><br />I wonder when they'll be as adamant about abolishing the heter of non glatt (and "glatt" that's not chalak bet yosef) as they are about abolishing a chumra of kitniyos. <br /><br />Not holding my breath...Mikeagehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15827275300296295639noreply@blogger.com