tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post4728313946555177748..comments2024-03-29T11:40:46.477+03:00Comments on Life in Israel: is one hechsher better than the next?Rafi G.http://www.blogger.com/profile/00699851287106903971noreply@blogger.comBlogger31125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-86827613812970275222007-06-04T10:25:00.000+03:002007-06-04T10:25:00.000+03:00anonymous - sad to say, but that is true of all ne...anonymous - sad to say, but that is true of all newspapers, even the most reputable...<BR/><BR/>muse - I agree, but the issue is not really saying a Rabbi is not reliable, but saying that any specific hechsher uses lower standards (i.e. more kulas) than others...Rafi G.https://www.blogger.com/profile/00699851287106903971noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-37266562375994109582007-06-04T07:03:00.000+03:002007-06-04T07:03:00.000+03:00Our local rabbi says it's motzi shem ra to say tha...Our local rabbi says it's motzi shem ra to say that a rabbi's word is bad about kashrut.<BR/><BR/>There must be real proof.Batyahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09402874037427009327noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-77075767532085486002007-06-04T03:32:00.000+03:002007-06-04T03:32:00.000+03:00I wish to clarify what I wrote earlier about the M...I wish to clarify what I wrote earlier about the Mishpachah magazine. Although I believe it has some serious shortcomings [among them it's lack of serious journalistic standards] I did not mean to imply that it has no value or is a rag etc. My children greatly enjoy the Junior Mishpachah and my wife enjoys the regular version. I, a stickler by nature, and someone who can't stand sloppy writing [not that you could tell that from my post] don't take well to it at all. I have long felt that they take on subjects that they're limited staff are not equipped to handle and thereby greatly misrepresent the subject.<BR/>A case in point - I attended a certain conference earlier this year that was reported heavily in the Mishpachah mag. Suffice it to say that I didn't recognize the conference I'd attended from their story. It was a sensationalist account of a few going-on's that were incidental to the main theme of the conference.<BR/>All that notwithstanding, it has many merits as well.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-56293304123712616682007-05-31T23:50:00.000+03:002007-05-31T23:50:00.000+03:00miriam - that's not really a good answer....miriam - that's not really a good answer....Rafi G.https://www.blogger.com/profile/00699851287106903971noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-70861450353114273762007-05-31T21:17:00.000+03:002007-05-31T21:17:00.000+03:00I am SO SO CRAZY HAPPY for this post! It should be...I am SO SO CRAZY HAPPY for this post! It should be publicized everywhere. I really wish people would talk about hechsherim.<BR/><BR/>I called a rebbetzin once and asked about why one hechsher is preferred over another and she said: I tell you all about it....Just eat badatz!<BR/><BR/>Okay. that was "all about it".Miriamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06067406973014144499noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-58176242607916781342007-05-31T05:51:00.000+03:002007-05-31T05:51:00.000+03:00"I would suggest to you that you stop readin ghe e..."I would suggest to you that you stop readin ghe english edition and switch to the hebrew. yes, at the beginning it will be slow reading."<BR/><BR/>No thanks - I don't read the English and I have no interest in the Hebrew either. I buy it because my kids like the Junior Moshpachah. The adult version turns me off before I get through two pages.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-54096055257268523082007-05-31T00:32:00.000+03:002007-05-31T00:32:00.000+03:00as I said, I do not read the English edition. I ha...as I said, I do not read the English edition. I have never seen such articles in the Hebrew edition and it is in general considered a much more serious magazine. Sure, it does not compare to Newsweek, Time or US World Report, but for the frum world it is as serious and independant as you get right now.<BR/><BR/>I would suggest to you that you stop readin ghe english edition and switch to the hebrew. yes, at the beginning it will be slow reading. Little by little you will pick up the hebrew and improve your speed and reading...Rafi G.https://www.blogger.com/profile/00699851287106903971noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-44190138656385405972007-05-31T00:28:00.000+03:002007-05-31T00:28:00.000+03:00Rafi - I don't know much about Shechittah so no co...Rafi - I don't know much about Shechittah so no comment there but Mishpachah is a joke regardless of how many people read. People mag has a larger readership but it's also a joke.<BR/>The Englihs mag has an article every two weeks on accupuncture, mental healing, and every other kind of crap that's bizzarre. It's filler material for a mag that can't write gossip.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-80339373665351346652007-05-30T23:50:00.000+03:002007-05-30T23:50:00.000+03:00this has gotten a bit off topic, though it has bee...this has gotten a bit off topic, though it has been enlightening. The topic I discussed was only the hechsher on shechitta. I even mention at the end of the post that there are or must be differences in the general hechshers, and it is only on shechitta that they are the same (or seem to be).<BR/><BR/>Also, whether you consider Mishpacha serious or not, it is the most popular chareidi newspaper/magazine and for them to write this article is very unusual and raises all these questions, at least to me. <BR/><BR/><BR/>I have no idea what you are referring to when you say they write about crackpot healing techniques. Either I do not read those articles or we are reading different magazines... I read the hebrew edition (I do not even like the english edition). Which do you read and if it is the hebrew, where do you find the healing techniques?<BR/><BR/><BR/>hershel - I cannot tell if you are being sarcastic or not. I think you are, but can you calrify please?Rafi G.https://www.blogger.com/profile/00699851287106903971noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-53774327565574542312007-05-30T23:24:00.000+03:002007-05-30T23:24:00.000+03:00If you need to ask a representative of one hechshe...If you need to ask a representative of one hechsher how it is better or different from another, you are not heimish and do not deserve an answer. If you a truly frum, then you take on faith that the greater holiness of chareidi mashgichim make the product more kosher. Just as meat shechted by a heretic is treif even if the shchita is physically perfect, a purer kashruth results when a proper Yid is involved in it. Physical reality is of a lesser importance and need not be addressed by the hechsher organization.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-11648126171696236042007-05-30T22:19:00.000+03:002007-05-30T22:19:00.000+03:00Rafi,You're somewhat out of your league here. Seri...Rafi,<BR/><BR/>You're somewhat out of your league here. Seriously, Mishpachah is hardly a serious mag even though its widely read. There aren't many options and they're full color so people buy it. I do as well but for gods sakes, know their limitations. They're not investigative journalists by any stretch of the imagination.<BR/><BR/>Are all Hechsherim the same? No. Are they all as good or bad as people say? No. Spend some time in the industry and you'll see what I mean. There are those who are consistently better and those who are consistently worse but alot depends on the individual Mashgiach and complexity of the job. <BR/>For the most part, the well-known and serious ones are better because they can afford to pay for better supervision which is what alot of it boils down to. Also, the other agencies will not rely on them if they dont have basic standards.<BR/><BR/>That said - Rabbanut [not Mehadrin] is a complete and utter joke. If you believe otherwise you're a tool. How can the israeli govt. which shortchanges the rabbanut in every other area suddenly have gotten it right on this one? When I read this I realized that you must be very naive or maybe just simple but you're living there and you ought to know that it's not just about reporting their mistakes.<BR/>A friend of mine [a bt] just ate at a rabbanut rest. because he was reassured that there's no difference and "its just politics." Even his non-kosher eating parents were aghast at the obvious lack of standards and insisted that they leave once they realized that they were causing their son a problem. They served meat and dairy on different sides of the room and the dishes were being cleaned off by the same busboy in the SAME CONTAINER [yes, milk and meat dishes were mixed together with all their residue] and the busboy explained that they all go through the same dishwasher so it's not a problem. The manager of the place admitted to my friend that it's not really THAT kosher and he only does what the Rabbanut makes him do but the Mashgiach only shows up about once a month and never says much anyhow. <BR/>This is not an unusual story either. There is a reason for their bad rap and it's not because they're so honest. Gosh - that's only slightly funnier than Mishpachah's obligatory bi-weekly article on crackpot healing techniques. Do you believe those too?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-54453604095198105172007-05-30T15:05:00.000+03:002007-05-30T15:05:00.000+03:00amechad - I remember once reading about a group pu...amechad - I remember once reading about a group pushing such a position against the eida chareidit. I do not remember what it was called. maybe I will look for it...<BR/><BR/>anon - Rubin is considered one of the best. I met one of his head mashgichim once. My daf yomi shiur had arranged a shchita of a sheep when we learned chulin. The rav wanted us to bring a mashgiach and he put us in contact with this guy who works as one of Rubin's chief mashgichim.<BR/><BR/>During the process he told us that all the hechsherim (he was referring to the mehadrin hechsherim, but I would guess it also applies to the Rabbanut Chalak hechsher) pretty much all keep just about the same chumros. He explained that it is so because all the companies want everyone to be able to buy from them. <BR/><BR/>ari - I always wondered if Tirat Tzvi had two different factories, one for regular and one for mehadrin. It made no sense to me. I "knew" there was no way it was really different stuff. Thanks for that story.<BR/><BR/>shaya - great example.<BR/><BR/>swfm - I don't know. that's the big questionRafi G.https://www.blogger.com/profile/00699851287106903971noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-65335455613681799062007-05-30T10:23:00.000+03:002007-05-30T10:23:00.000+03:00That's why I think my policy is the best: If there...That's why I think my policy is the best: If there's a hechsher, it's not counterfit, then I eat it. Though I actually try to avoid (though I can't do it often) Badatz Eidat Haredi b/c it's a non-Zionist hechsher and I beleive that rejecting Zionism is against halakha.Avihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08329515764832743303noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-76469119029608390832007-05-30T00:25:00.000+03:002007-05-30T00:25:00.000+03:00I could be mistaken but im pretty sure that Rubin ...I could be mistaken but im pretty sure that Rubin is rabbanut--he's rabbanut rechovot and mehadrin rechovot and the best hechsher in Israel as far as im concerned(not that others arent good but hes certainly the best). feel free to correct if im mistaken.BradAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-74042869403077692522007-05-29T23:06:00.000+03:002007-05-29T23:06:00.000+03:00shaya g:that's exactly what i was thinking about.a...shaya g:<BR/><BR/>that's exactly what i was thinking about.<BR/><BR/>although the record goes to israeli lettuce. i bought a bag once that had at least 6 hechsherim!<BR/><BR/>maybe that's why it cost 6 times what the treif stuff costs.Lion of Zionhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10342299133387602141noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-72061834834715371762007-05-29T21:45:00.000+03:002007-05-29T21:45:00.000+03:00So since it's a high percentage it's tricky to kno...So since it's a high percentage it's tricky to know if I should eat all of the hechsherim or just the machmir ones.socialworker/frustrated momhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10352262399235382201noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-66720135989715976882007-05-29T21:13:00.000+03:002007-05-29T21:13:00.000+03:00here in the states, great example. twizzlers get ...here in the states, great example. twizzlers get a "paskez" sticker right over the regular label. who here really thinks twizzlers runs a seperate run, with "more kosher" ingredients?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-6683333806481564462007-05-29T20:13:00.000+03:002007-05-29T20:13:00.000+03:00MOTHER IN ISRAEL:it is all politics in america as ...MOTHER IN ISRAEL:<BR/><BR/>it is all politics in america as well<BR/><BR/>RAFI:<BR/><BR/>when i was in yeshivah in israel we volunteered for a few weeks on kibbutz tirat tzvi. i worked in the meat factory (tiv tirat tzvi). i don't remember the exact story, but back then some products had a rabbanut and some had badatz. what was the difference in production? there was none. just that an extra mashgiah came around two days a week and the boxes i packed on those days received an extra sticker.Lion of Zionhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10342299133387602141noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-89995846643078394512007-05-29T15:47:00.000+03:002007-05-29T15:47:00.000+03:00I don't think that all mashgihim are lazy (chas v'...I don't think that all mashgihim are lazy (chas v'shalom) and I purposely didn't write the name of which heksher as it doesn't add to the conversation.<BR/><BR/>It simply made me realize that one heksher is really no "better" than another. We'd like to believe that we're relying on the Rav who's running the show--but we're not. We depend on his shaliach who probably has never met or personally vetted.<BR/><BR/>From my days in Mishmar Ezrachi, I met another mashgiach who confirmed my stories. He was definitely an upright Jew who was a mashgiach for several heksherim--and he gave his all for all of them--even though some people would consider some of them "good" heksherim while denigrating others.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-61602618774886782972007-05-29T11:49:00.000+03:002007-05-29T11:49:00.000+03:00I am hearing more and more of these stories. the o...I am hearing more and more of these stories. the one you mentioned, Louis, is very interesting... that guy probably got his job because he knew someone. I am sure most mashgichim are not lazy and have integrity in their work. I would not want to say all mashgichim are like him.Rafi G.https://www.blogger.com/profile/00699851287106903971noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-47912334501546046352007-05-29T11:09:00.000+03:002007-05-29T11:09:00.000+03:00One of my favorite stories from my very limited st...One of my favorite stories from my very limited stint in the army is about the guy who was always late for davening, wasn't particularly interested in any of our peilut and was basically one of the laziest guys I'd ever met (religiously or otherwise). <BR/><BR/>One day we were all talking about our jobs and he told us that he had the "easiest job where you don't have to do anything."<BR/><BR/>What was he? A mashgiach for one of the so-called Charedi heksherim. He told us how he'd stop by restaurants in the Holy City, chit-chat, have a bite, occasionally look in the kitchen and move on to the next establishment. It was "sooo easy."<BR/><BR/>IMHO, it's all "beyadei shamayim" as the Jews of Gulus/New York recently learned (or were reminded). The same thing happened in Baltimore in the early 1980s.<BR/><BR/>The Torah wasn't given to angels, just to Benei Adam. I just try my best and hope no one is being fraudulent. As such, I eat Rabbanut on principle and buy meat from only from reputable chains such as the SuperSol rather than the shuk or out of the back of a truck.<BR/><BR/>Let me conclude that I'm impressed with the honest approach of LaMishpacha. I hope it continues... and spreads.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-28529110134915809212007-05-29T10:05:00.000+03:002007-05-29T10:05:00.000+03:00Rafi,Yes, this is what people who are involved in ...Rafi,<BR/><BR/>Yes, this is what people who are involved in kashrus in Israel told me, a regular Rabbanut hechsher has to accept every other Rabbanut hechsher. Rabbanut Mehadrin does not , this is the main difference.blukehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03774763780910614203noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-50735052251312716442007-05-29T09:26:00.000+03:002007-05-29T09:26:00.000+03:00moi - I am pretty sure it is also in america....bl...moi - I am pretty sure it is also in america....<BR/><BR/>bluke - I have heard that as well, but I am not sure how it applies. Every rabbanut has to accept every other rabbanut? on everything?<BR/><BR/>swfm - that is the reality. Maybe it is not 100% politics. Maybe there are some differences. But it is pretty high percentage of politics.Rafi G.https://www.blogger.com/profile/00699851287106903971noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-51820872785453625912007-05-29T06:42:00.000+03:002007-05-29T06:42:00.000+03:00Except for what Bluke said, it's all politics. At ...Except for what Bluke said, it's all politics. At least in Israel.mother in israelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13715046177293916034noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-62942960115676646622007-05-29T04:51:00.000+03:002007-05-29T04:51:00.000+03:00It is lots of politics but I believe that there mu...It is lots of politics but I believe that there must be some truth to some hashgachas being better than others, I can't believe it's only politics.socialworker/frustrated momhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10352262399235382201noreply@blogger.com