tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post4814213479606024289..comments2024-03-18T19:59:12.814+02:00Comments on Life in Israel: possible changes coming to the yeshiva system?Rafi G.http://www.blogger.com/profile/00699851287106903971noreply@blogger.comBlogger12125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-23063178517946120292010-06-28T22:26:30.455+03:002010-06-28T22:26:30.455+03:00I think that at the end of the day. The girls BY s...I think that at the end of the day. The girls BY schools run by chinuch atzmai will go semi private like the Cheder style school and just take less money. like a mendelsons idea. or mendelsons may become a very large school. The parents are not going to allow the govenment to take over that much at all. It is pushing them to go more extreme. 100%Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-21083031253033521172010-06-28T21:28:10.410+03:002010-06-28T21:28:10.410+03:00A) I don't think this will become a widespread...A) I don't think this will become a widespread practice, as others have already said.<br /><br />B) While I disagree with the govt meddling in this case, it isn't a widespread problem. Meanwhile, more than any prominent family name you see on donation plaques all the time, the biggest supporter of yeshivos is the State of Israel. So I think there's an overall lack of hakaras hatov here. <br /><br />C) If it were to happen for real, that money which used to go to yeshivos will now be available for other govt programs, some of which be k'neged Torah. Wouldn't that be tantamount to yeshivos funding these initiatives?Wanna Saabhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11564440024185263043noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-23925630234001017022010-06-28T20:59:51.989+03:002010-06-28T20:59:51.989+03:00I wish we could have a more proactive hashkafa. F...I wish we could have a more proactive hashkafa. For example why it isn't a priority to override Torah learning for greater societal needs (army, career) but we do participate in chessed within the greater society. Instead it's just issue by issue, and comes out looking self-serving.Shiranoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-52301183270884632282010-06-28T19:14:34.562+03:002010-06-28T19:14:34.562+03:00I am leeaving it ambivalent because I am not sure,...I am leeaving it ambivalent because I am not sure, but this will just be the beginning. I was thinking along the lines of further separation from the State in other areas.Rafi G.https://www.blogger.com/profile/00699851287106903971noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-1527985734808144672010-06-28T19:06:59.916+03:002010-06-28T19:06:59.916+03:00It might start with not taking money for schools s...<i>It might start with not taking money for schools so we can run them how we want, but it will end up in all sorts of other areas where it will be less pleasant.</i><br /><br />Rafi what do you mean by other areas, and less pleasant? Less pleasant for us card-carrying internet charedim as we try to follow an ever-restrictive Daas Torah? Or can you envision a way in which non-participating charedim will make their non-participation less pleasant for general Israeli society?Shiranoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-85072543802987725932010-06-28T18:32:26.698+03:002010-06-28T18:32:26.698+03:00It may not be the only reason, but the economic im...It may not be the only reason, but the economic imperative is hard to ignore, I suspect the results will be along the lines suggested by Akiva.<br /><br />KT<br />Joel RichAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-63992137161247703292010-06-28T18:04:13.531+03:002010-06-28T18:04:13.531+03:00I'm not sure why this is concerning news or ev...I'm not sure why this is concerning news or even realistic, as akiva points out. How on this God given earth could they possibly manage to fund schools without government funding? It's simply impossible, and they look ridiculous even suggesting it. It's just political posing. I'd love to see them cut the chord and learn what living in the real world means. The sooner the better.Commenter Abbihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07753256568022159103noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-12440490188539116102010-06-28T17:15:30.912+03:002010-06-28T17:15:30.912+03:00Having some (limited) inside knowledge of yeshiva ...Having some (limited) inside knowledge of yeshiva funding...ha, give me a break! Take a look at RBS as an example...every school is sitting in a freely received government building, they are not paying arnona on that property, not paying the water and sewer bill, not paying for the guard, and most of their salary costs are covered.<br /><br />Oh, they have to pay administration, supplies, etc. And if they don't have enough kids in the class they don't have enough money to pay the salary (or don't get coverage for that teacher).<br /><br />So, let's say every charedi school next year comes to the parents and says "sorry, we're not taking government money, the schar limud is tripled to cover the salaries, and another 2x to cover the building." Being that even at Israeli schar limud rates many of the parents are behind, not paying at all, paying with discounts, yep that's going to go over well.<br /><br />But wait, the big working sector of the charedi community will step up, right? Oh yeah, gaining the skills to get high paying jobs is inappropriate in the charedi community.<br /><br />So the US Jews will step up to cover it! Except with the current economy there's schools shutting down and/or merging to stay alive in the US. And even when the economy was at it's best they were already maxed at what they could provide to Israel.<br /><br />Actually this might be a GREAT thing. The community may be forced to rebalance the earners/learners mix for the next generation to allow society to provide the level of autonomy it would wish.<br /><br />As it is, no way, no chance, what a joke.Akivahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13042484533217272945noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-52150918740047216872010-06-28T17:09:15.348+03:002010-06-28T17:09:15.348+03:00Jpel - what do you mean by the American experience...Jpel - what do you mean by the American experience?<br />In America the govt doesnt fund the yeshivas, but it is also coming from a different culture. The lack of govt funding might not be the only reason for the American yeshiva experienceRafi G.https://www.blogger.com/profile/00699851287106903971noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-68878379488666886362010-06-28T17:05:32.156+03:002010-06-28T17:05:32.156+03:00See the American experience if you want the answer...See the American experience if you want the answer<br />KT<br />Joel RichAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-39800825994972797972010-06-28T17:04:52.686+03:002010-06-28T17:04:52.686+03:00My take: they will talk, whine and the vast mainst...My take: they will talk, whine and the vast mainstream will continue taking money from the state. They cannot afford otherwise. There is no way they can support the yeshiva system without the Israeli public working to pay for it.<br /><br />As Bohr said, quoting what was done in previous generations is totally irrelevant unless of course the proportion of the Haredim in the yeshivot goes down to the same proportion it was then. I can't see that happening.Rafi (S)https://www.blogger.com/profile/18103892755392538611noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-10433453744397922102010-06-28T16:50:18.340+03:002010-06-28T16:50:18.340+03:00The Eidah can refuse to take money from the state ...The Eidah can refuse to take money from the state because they are small and can survive with outside help from Satmar. <br />The sheer numbers of yeshiva/kollel students in the mainstream charedi makes it that they cant afford the luxury unless you reduce the number of students.<br />Quoting gedolim from previous generations is not relevant because the numbers were much smaller and they did not live in an affluent society.bohr salinonoreply@blogger.com