tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post8991404432715270172..comments2024-03-28T21:53:53.990+02:00Comments on Life in Israel: Rabbanut Invalidates Two Marriages To Resolve Two MarriagesRafi G.http://www.blogger.com/profile/00699851287106903971noreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-4685514882814307312012-03-19T13:51:25.511+02:002012-03-19T13:51:25.511+02:00just because they found solutions in some cases do...just because they found solutions in some cases does not mean they can apply solutions "wholesale" to solve agunot. I am sure some agunot cases are solved in unique and innovative fashion, while others unfortunately still remain unsolved because the solutions dont apply.Rafi G.https://www.blogger.com/profile/00699851287106903971noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-75624209526565809372012-03-19T13:46:18.225+02:002012-03-19T13:46:18.225+02:00If they can find this sort of flexibility in these...If they can find this sort of flexibility in these two cases, why can't they find some sort of flexibility that would free agunot?Aharon Friedmanhttp://www.aharonfriedman.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-51795814138341959742012-03-15T19:03:24.872+02:002012-03-15T19:03:24.872+02:00fyi, some of their psakim (though probably not the...fyi, some of their psakim (though probably not these) are available at http://www.rbc.gov.il/judgements/index.asp (works best in iexplorer)<br /><br />Case #1 seemed pretty straight forward to me: she made it clear that she didn't intend to marry. Just that the man wasn't in on the joke.<br /><br />My impression is that instances similar to the second case happen frequently in the US, with the beit din actually watching wedding videos.Shmildanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-18088421678662586872012-03-15T09:59:04.666+02:002012-03-15T09:59:04.666+02:00in the first case it sounds like the rabbi had no ...in the first case it sounds like the rabbi had no idea. maybe he saw some tension, but on the wedding day, people can be nervous and upset.<br />in the second case I am surprised. i was not aware that Conservative Rabbis allowed witnesses who are related. it also sounds like they probably got married abroad for this to have happened.Rafi G.https://www.blogger.com/profile/00699851287106903971noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-47616925944897688612012-03-15T09:55:53.863+02:002012-03-15T09:55:53.863+02:00I don't agree with the concept of marriage ann...I don't agree with the concept of marriage annulments.<br /><br />But in these cases, there really was never a marriage to begin with.<br /><br />If I was asked to run the weddings, and knew all the information in both those cases, I would never have allowed the wedding to take place at all.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-10807794833594011452012-03-15T06:56:24.811+02:002012-03-15T06:56:24.811+02:00Interesting and important. There are very good day...Interesting and important. There are very good dayanim who want only the best for the people.Batyahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09402874037427009327noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-68360757674828125042012-03-15T06:28:13.961+02:002012-03-15T06:28:13.961+02:00Rabbi yosef does these things whosale... Look at h...Rabbi yosef does these things whosale... Look at his booksYosh55https://www.blogger.com/profile/13627334897718297633noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-88004536235525210352012-03-15T04:32:40.037+02:002012-03-15T04:32:40.037+02:00It sounds like in the first case, the bride had co...It sounds like in the first case, the bride had conveyed a modaah - disclaimer before the wedding. That, coupled with her behavior indicating her unwillingness to be wed to the guy, might provide grounds for saying she wed unwillingly. The halacha doesn't allow for unwilling kiddushin, as far as I know. That may have been a foundation for the beit din's efforts to find other factors to complete the picture of 'no marriage'. Even if a get were given, if the get were determined to be unnecessary, then it is a non-issue. There were teshuvot about such scenarios with gittei milhama where the husband was determined to have been killed, and therefore the issuance of the get by the beit din was meaningless. I too would be curious to see the actual teshuvot, but the rabbanut doesn't usually publish proceedings all that quickly.Mordechai Y. Scherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06774262478551329181noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-71587783958370209252012-03-14T20:37:13.007+02:002012-03-14T20:37:13.007+02:00Traditionally, Sfardim don't have a Yichud roo...Traditionally, Sfardim don't have a Yichud room at their weddings. If that happened to be the case in the first story and the Kallah never went home with her husband, there may be some wiggle room. <br /><br />A chumrah is not halacha. In a case where the chumra is causing more harm then it helps, there is certainly room for reevalution. In Mesechet Gittin, there are all kinds of scenarios the Rabbis rejected but allowed Post Facto. It appears the Beit Din was simply taking these considerations into account. Their ruling in this case in no way permits someone from intentionally getting into these types of situations.ehwhyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06436676108396672275noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-90212382900696818842012-03-14T18:57:49.792+02:002012-03-14T18:57:49.792+02:00all I have is the mynet article. obviously newspap...all I have is the mynet article. obviously newspaper articles, especially non-religious ones, will not be completely accurate and will be missing some of the important nuances. Does the rabbanut, of modiin or elsewhere, publish their piskei halacha anywhere? I am not aware of such a publication.Rafi G.https://www.blogger.com/profile/00699851287106903971noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-70893362049574020542012-03-14T18:43:48.225+02:002012-03-14T18:43:48.225+02:00I would very much like to see the actual teshuvot ...I would very much like to see the actual teshuvot here, because this does not seem to make sense. It is true, in the second case, that it sounds similar to Rav Moshe's teshuva to save mamzerim. But it is not clear to me how it can be used to avoid a woman being considered a divorcee. Even according to Rav Moshe, even though the wedding was not halachically valid the couple should always try to do the 'get' process, and his leniency is only as a last resort.<br />In both cases the women received gittin from Beis Din (I assume). According to my understanding that should be enough to invalidate them from marrying cohanim, even if the get was only required as a chumra (which itself is not clear).<br />If you have access to the actual teshuvot written by the Rabbanut of Modi'in (who are certainly bigger talmidei chachamim than me) could you please publish it. Or tell your readers how to access it.<br />(I have had several cases of divorced women wishing to marry cohanim, and have never found any kind of heter. This teshuva could change a lot of people's lives!)<br />Yashar Koach as always.rabbi sedleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15276453426346276243noreply@blogger.com