tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post9058026738768478122..comments2024-03-29T06:05:20.562+03:00Comments on Life in Israel: new wedding minhagim irk Rav avinerRafi G.http://www.blogger.com/profile/00699851287106903971noreply@blogger.comBlogger19125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-88054653490854727892017-07-03T17:25:05.640+03:002017-07-03T17:25:05.640+03:00Getting married on Har HaBayit seems to be noticea...Getting married on Har HaBayit seems to be noticeably absent in this list :-)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-32666073996435079822017-07-03T16:49:00.988+03:002017-07-03T16:49:00.988+03:00First of all, the first part that you wrote is bas...First of all, the first part that you wrote is based on a misunderstanding (or mis-translation). Rav Aviner did not say there is any problem of decorating the chuppah, rather he said that there is a new phenomenon of trying to “decorate” the chupah by introducing new customs and experiences. He then proceeds to list 16 examples. Some are becoming customary in weddings in certain circles, and some are a one-time happening that (as correctly noted) have not become custom anywhere, rather just an example of things that have been done to try to liven up the event. Rav Aviner, as everyone knows, is a very traditional Rabbi (as most rabbis are and in my opinion should be), is not so much in favor of changing religious practices that have been done for 1000 years in all Jewish communities. <br />I understand your view that “if it is not Assur then anyone can do as he/she pleases”, but except for the most liberal of thinkers, most religious people do not always agree to that. There is a traditional way of doing things even if it may be possible to do it differently. (Haven’t you ever seen Fiddler on the Roof?) Jewish chuppah is a beautiful event and does not need any new rave to make it more exciting.<br />For example, everyone knows that reading the ketubah under the chupah is only done to make a break and the there is no religious significance to the reading. But if you decide that having a fire and light show, a carlebach style kumzits, a stand-up comedian, or a powerpoint presentation of the chasan/kalah as babies is more interesting and not assur – you may be right – but that is not the way Jewish weddings have been doing it for the past 1000 years! <br />In particular, in today’s society, it will upset many traditional religious Jews and rabbis if it seems that your purpose is to push a particular agenda. Having a woman read the ketubah – because she is allowed to – seems as a demonstration of your endorsement of feminism (not always a bad thing, but not appropriate here) rather just that Aunt Sally is the only one qualified for the job.<br />Rav Aviner does not need my haskamah at all, but most (note the word “most”) of his opinions as well as the examples he gives here would be agreed upon by 99% of all Chareidi and traditional Orthodox rabbis. (Though they would probably not bother to write about it since it would be trivial that such practices are not accepted). <br />Yehudah Gnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-6442681945487420092017-07-03T10:31:09.900+03:002017-07-03T10:31:09.900+03:00Yet many people have the chassan and kallah hold h...Yet many people have the chassan and kallah hold hands when leaving the chuppa, which has the same problem.dlzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08269900740743979382noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-59795913187099383292017-06-30T20:35:03.421+03:002017-06-30T20:35:03.421+03:00Of the fourteen, six seem to be specifically again...Of the fourteen, six seem to be specifically against women having a bigger role in the wedding. If one believes a Jewish wedding is nothing but an acquisition ceremony, I can understand why he feels like women shouldn't have any role at all. Why should the property being sold have a say in the sale? Of course, for those who believe a Jewish wedding is about two people getting married on equal ground, then it's a matter for all to celebrate, and not just one sex (the males). Rivkanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-90535734261505364152017-06-30T15:38:39.885+03:002017-06-30T15:38:39.885+03:00" the minhag was always to have both fathers ..." the minhag was always to have both fathers walk groom and both mothers to walk bride. new minhag is to have each set of parents walk their own child"<br /><br />Not so. The minhag varied in different places.<br /><br />In America, this has many times been a source of contention when families with different minhagim marry.<br /><br />There is a famous story about R. Yaakow Kaminetsky, to whom someone came to help resolve such a dispute. They then asked him what his minhag is -- what did he do when he married off his six children? His answer: "My minhag is to do what the mechutanim want to do."Bored Lawyernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-39098506516758410892017-06-30T12:36:14.512+03:002017-06-30T12:36:14.512+03:00Who am I, an ordinary retirement-aged woman to say...Who am I, an ordinary retirement-aged woman to say this, but it seems like the esteemed Rabbi Aviner is mixing up specific/individual weddings with the concept of "minhag." None of these things on the list has become of such a quasi-halachik necessity as a "minhag," like "no kitniyot for Ashkenazim on Pesach" would be. Certain things are now "accepted" if the couple insists or requests, and in most cases, it's because the older minhag was just that, a minhag and not halacha. <br />Thank Gd there are rabbis who understand that besides the barebone mitzvah/halacha, a wedding is supposed to bring joy and optimism to the couple and not antagonize them and turn them against Judaism.Batyahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09402874037427009327noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-47963873314956375652017-06-30T08:44:06.904+03:002017-06-30T08:44:06.904+03:00It always seemed so inappropriate that everyone wo...It always seemed so inappropriate that everyone would yell mazal tov after the glass broke, missing the entire point. So I thought singing Im Eshkacheich was started so they could break it in the middle of the song and give the thought its due. Rav Aviner should not only shoot these practices down by calling them new minhagim, but also relate to the point of the well-intentioned ones (skip the pool...) and explain how to address that intention also.<br /><br />If he's trying to intimidate people by saying they're going against minhagim, he's only alienating them.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-14198485928305846912017-06-30T02:19:01.077+03:002017-06-30T02:19:01.077+03:00Some of these are truly bizarre. Nos. 12 and 14, ...Some of these are truly bizarre. Nos. 12 and 14, for example.Bored Lawyernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-80723805228483216482017-06-30T00:36:55.434+03:002017-06-30T00:36:55.434+03:00Anon- 3 min? Have you seen the choson and kallah ...Anon- 3 min? Have you seen the choson and kallah try to get away from the throngs of friends singing Od Yishama? It definately takes 3 min and 30 seconds! ;-)<br />Rafi- agreed. Get a room. A yichud room! :-)-LFDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08994001727283009727noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-63385713832969766752017-06-29T23:48:55.506+03:002017-06-29T23:48:55.506+03:00If niddah is the concern, then the chosson handing...If niddah is the concern, then the chosson handing her the kesuba or holding hands while walking from the chuppah to yichud would also be a problem. I'd say that the problem isn't niddah, but rather that kissing one's spouse is private intimate behavior which doesn't belong under a chuppah with the eyes of the whole party watching. The couple should exercise some control and wait 3 minutes to get to the yichud room :)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-76136577840886000152017-06-29T23:26:55.679+03:002017-06-29T23:26:55.679+03:00I would say tzniyus reasons. while part of that mi...I would say tzniyus reasons. while part of that might be nida as LFD said, I think most of it is that they should just not be kissing in publicRafi G.https://www.blogger.com/profile/00699851287106903971noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-14094554550866545282017-06-29T23:09:37.649+03:002017-06-29T23:09:37.649+03:00Avi- not a posek, but it would advertise her statu...Avi- not a posek, but it would advertise her status. Hopefully she's good but it's possible for her not to be. Would kissing become common, people would ask questions if there was no kiss. That's my guess.-LFDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08994001727283009727noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-70337900104889763292017-06-29T20:38:52.164+03:002017-06-29T20:38:52.164+03:00Why is kissing definitely prohibited?
Why is kissing definitely prohibited?<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-8430293859700079732017-06-29T20:36:40.492+03:002017-06-29T20:36:40.492+03:00What's a "real" Minhag?What's a "real" Minhag?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-58096678147396568222017-06-29T19:41:03.623+03:002017-06-29T19:41:03.623+03:00A lot of these minhagim that he complains about I ...A lot of these minhagim that he complains about I have never heard or seen before. <br /><br />#1. At my first wedding I wanted breaking the glass to be focused on zecher haMikdash. The Rabbi decided to say (not sing) Im Eshkocheich Yerushalayim. To put breaking the glass in the right context. It was the only time I saw that done before the singing Im Eshkocheich Yerushalayim began. <br /><br />I was at another wedding a few years ago. The couple decided to break the glass in the middle of chuappah for similar reasons. The Rabbi gave a beautiful explanation of the feeling of loss of the Mikdash. He explained that the couple had asked that people not say Mazel Tov after the glass was broken. The glass was broken and the officiating Rabbi was the only one who said Mazel Tov. <br /><br />9. At my first wedding the Rabbi made a big deal that we would not kiss after chuppah. The first person to give me a kiss was my Rosh Yeshiva. ehwhyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06436676108396672275noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-51449800224549460602017-06-29T19:06:04.701+03:002017-06-29T19:06:04.701+03:00I dont disagree with you and personally I prefer s...I dont disagree with you and personally I prefer simpler. But I wouldnt begrudge anybody else doing what they find meaningful or exciting, especially if it isnt against halachaRafi G.https://www.blogger.com/profile/00699851287106903971noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-84843343211057537822017-06-29T19:05:02.613+03:002017-06-29T19:05:02.613+03:00and they would need to take motion sickness pills ...and they would need to take motion sickness pills like Dramamine!Rafi G.https://www.blogger.com/profile/00699851287106903971noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-78003655127145643862017-06-29T18:24:09.730+03:002017-06-29T18:24:09.730+03:00In general, Jewish life cycle events would benefit...In general, Jewish life cycle events would benefit from more simplicity and grounding in real minhagim, and less shtick. The couple can make many original contributions in their lives going forward.RAMnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-68919928789408365632017-06-29T18:09:15.172+03:002017-06-29T18:09:15.172+03:00I agree with #13. Why would anyone want to begin ...I agree with #13. Why would anyone want to begin their marriage on shaky ground? :-)yaakhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08179304707239865515noreply@blogger.com