MK Yariv Levin (Likud Beyteynu) proposed a law by which it will be illegal for anyone to marry under the age of 18. As of right now the law allows for people to marry at the age of 17, and the courts can give special permission to people younger who wish to get married, on a case by case basis. Marriage at a younger age without first obtaining permission form the courts is a criminal offense that can draw up to two years in prison.
According to the new law, the courts will only be able to give special permission for marriage to people 16 years old and older. Another factor in this law proposal is that the various relevant parties will all have to report to the Ministerial committee formed about enforcement of the law - the Justice Ministry will have to report how many requests for exceptions have been brought to the court, how many kids were given permission, why, how many were prosecuted for marrying without permission, etc.
The Ministerial committee has now approved the law for further readings, after it passed its initial reading in the previous Knesset.
MK Uri Maklev (UTJ) requested that the proposal add the Beis Din Hagadol as another valid court for granting permission for marriage at a younger age. Maklev also protested the law saying it hurts the communities that customarily have their youth marry at a young age (specifically Breslav).
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Ben Shmona Esrei l'Chuppa in the Mishna means that age as a maximum to have gotten married by, not a minimum age.
ReplyDeleteAnyways such a law is unenforceable. The communities that marry early will continue doing so.
whats your source for it being a maximum rather than a minimum? as far as I know it is neither - just the preferred age
DeleteSmart move and damage control by MK Maklev. This is just more in the battle of West vs. Torah. :-/
ReplyDeletePardon my ignorance, but are there really that many kids getting married at age 17? Is it particularly bad for those who do? Has anyone younger than 16 been allowed by the courts to marry?
ReplyDeleteBasically, is there a real problem this legislation is trying to fix?
I assume it is, otherwise they wouldnt bother. Even if the numbers are small, western society considers it abusive, as they are considered too young to make their own decisions properly regarding things like this/ One can debate whether or not Judaism matches that perception, and which is better or worse, but Israel's legal system works (or it tries to at least) along the western systems..
DeleteRafi, I believe that you are correct, but I find it a shame that you are correct. IOW, Am Yisrael is not "western," so it is a shame that the Israeli legal system tries to emulate one of the systems we knew in galuth, instead of figuring out a Jewish system. (Just more "let's be like the goyim" assimilation.) :-/
DeleteCome on. Western Civilization (which is, in any event, largely based on Jewish tradition) is responsible for much of what's good in the world. You (and the leftists who trash it as well) owe a lot to it; show some respect. We can learn a lot from it; just because it's "Western" doesn't make it treyf.
DeleteMarriage at a young age, for women who plan to bear children can be dangerous and costly for society.
ReplyDeleteCheck out the stats on birth defects and health problems for teen moms.
The risk of Down's Syndrome is as high in teenage moms as it is in women over 40.
Well rafi, this issue is along the lines of the item we discussed previously: Judaism is a violent religion and it is the orthodox who come to Israel with the western values and diversity and have lived those values and therefore want to see judaism where the goal is peace, when in fact, the goal is obedience to god.
ReplyDeleteSame here: Judaism says it's ok and people judge it by western values.
so ask yourself: which is right?
do you think 16 yr old girls, 15, 14? are ripe for healthy marriage - is a healthy marriage even the goal in judaism?
or is western society correct with limiting it to 18 and viewing the the goal as healthy with equal rights?
or can you just dismiss it and say i don't know and i don't care and im going to stay orthodox because logic and conflict isn't the issue, god said so and ortho judaism is right and i simply don't and may never understand why Western values seem better than the jewish values.
1. I am sure that "authentic" Judaism has been bastardized by western culture no more or less than the amount it had been bastardized throughout each generation in history with the cultures of the people among whom the Jews were living in those times. The fact that western culture gets absorbed into Judaism and changes things, for the better or worse, does not bother me.
Delete2. I see absolutely no conflict in thsi issue between cultures. The Torah does not say anywhere that a girl must get married at 14 or 16, and along came western culture and said 18/ As a matter of fact, the talmud says the best age for marriage is 18! I would suggest that those chassidim or sefardim who commonly married kids off younger, perhaps they took that from the local cultures among whom they lived - but I see no indication in the torah that younger is preferred. The only time the torah speaks of it, that I can think of, is when it allows the father to marry his daughter off at a young age. And the gemara treats that as allowed but not preferred.
The gemara in Kiddushin says in one place that (for men, at least) the younger the better.
DeleteFrum website questions Ikrei emunah
ReplyDeletehttp://thepartialview.blogspot.com/2013/11/frum-girl-quits-cofferoom-amid-doubts.html
The only opinion I will bother to emphasize here (because you're all blinded by "holy hashqafah" and "hergel") is that the parents should decide when to marry their children off, and whether it is healthy or not, NOT the Israeli gov't, Western-assimilated or not, and for better or worse.
ReplyDeleteRafi, enjoy your Western clothing. Just like a girl doesn't have to get married at 15, you do not have to wear goyshe clothing (ie. black hat, suit and tie)..
The fact that we don't even try to stay away from the issur of not wearing goyshe livush, now that we don't have to wear them for the sake of piqu'ah nefesh, does bother me. :-/
you dont wear western clothing? what do you wear? now I am really curious and have to find time to meet you!
Deleteok, without parsing language over preferred or allowed.
ReplyDeleteJudaism, as the orthodox see it, allow for young girls (lets say 13) to be married and for fathers to marry off their daughters.
Western values do not allow for young girls to be married and do not allow for fathers to force them into arraigned marriages.
which set of values is a healthier philosophy and why?
1) At the age of 13? She can't be "forced."
ReplyDelete2) Of course Torah is always better for Jews. Gaining hachmah from goyim is great. Manipulating the Torah into what we are used to (hergel) believing is the proper way of life for a Jew, instead of searching for what HaShem wants from us, is just the illness of galuth. It's understandable, since we've bee stuck out there for so long.
3) Rafi, on Shabbath, I most certainly do not wear Western clothing. Progress, not perfection. I hope to be adding to my weekday wardrobe, soon. So, I hope in that area, I'm not the hypocrite, I know that many would LOVE to paint me as. :-/ I will answer the other part of your comment privately,...after I figure how to.
Gee, Esther, how does the very young chatan plan to support his bride and growing family, as a shepherd?
DeleteWestern Civ is one problem, but post-industrial economy is quite another.
1) I don't know why you put forced in quotation marks. How finely do you want to parse the language to make it sound less unreasonable?
ReplyDelete2) so extending that thought, that the torah is always right and western values are not proper, I can understand that not only are you against gay marriage but you believe people who commit homosexual acts should be punished according to the laws of the torah? And the punishment for rape should be what the torah says? as well as the punishment for breaking the sabbath? How far do you take the idea that the torah's values are better than western values?
1) Forced? Parsed? A 13 year old girl cannot be forced to marry someone she does want to marry. What's parsed?
ReplyDelete2) Yes. All the way. We're Jews. We are supposed to follow the Torah. Now,...about punishment,...the Torah takes various situations under consideration. For example, do those violating truly understand that they are violating it, and the severity of those violations? Not homosexual acts,...One particular homosexual act. You know there IS a such thing as the oral Torah. :-/
I'm discussing the philosophy of the law, be it arraigned marriages or the variety of punishments, whereas you are retreating into debating the legal applications of the laws. That's what I mean by parsing.
ReplyDeleteThat's why it's a question of values - it's a question of which philosophy is better, healthier, makes more sense.