tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post1045442129304556745..comments2024-03-29T11:40:46.477+03:00Comments on Life in Israel: Interview with MK Rabbi Dov LipmanRafi G.http://www.blogger.com/profile/00699851287106903971noreply@blogger.comBlogger26125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-80006583231629726582013-02-20T11:59:28.162+02:002013-02-20T11:59:28.162+02:00Rafi--great interview. I think it would be very in...Rafi--great interview. I think it would be very interesting were you to contact R. Dov's roshei yeshiva and rebbeim at Ner Yisroel to hear their reactions to their talmid's meteoric rise into Israeli society and his tremendous potential of being mekadesh shem shamayim in Israel and the entire world. I am also curious to hear what they think about his policies and if they consult with him.<br /><br />Kol tuv,<br />David Davidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05430253291799061752noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-59293016678134742882013-02-20T00:24:26.807+02:002013-02-20T00:24:26.807+02:00Yes, I was referring to the status quo, as that is...Yes, I was referring to the status quo, as that is what is under attack here by the left and for some bizarre reason, some MKs that identify with the Torah and even Charedism. The thing about the status quo is that nobody likes it. But at least most are able to live with it. It's the best of an unfortunate situation.Chosidnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-25396233380794791072013-02-19T14:59:46.954+02:002013-02-19T14:59:46.954+02:00I'll rephrase it a bit simpler:
Dr. Calderon e...I'll rephrase it a bit simpler:<br />Dr. Calderon equated Torah learning with other forms of serving the country (even if, in practice, the way many people who learn full time doesn't serve the country anywhere as near as it should). Why does Kadima insist that "equal service" is a requirement for their entering the coalition, but not strengthening Torah education?<br /><br />As someone who is being "advertised" (forgive the terminology, but I can't think of a better word right now) by his party as being chareidi, the question increasing Torah education should not be something which "bothers" Dov. Quite the contrary - I would think that it would be an important issue for him. It's not entirely clear to me why you have a problem with it either, nor why the chariedi system is even relevant here. (I only brought it up tangentially since it was how it was brought up by a member of Yesh Atid.)yoni r.noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-55530536252893118272013-02-19T14:50:00.039+02:002013-02-19T14:50:00.039+02:00And I don't think that your disagreeing with m...And I don't think that your disagreeing with me requires me to do soul searching, but I appreciate your concern.yoni r.noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-27835871672287890492013-02-19T14:48:51.751+02:002013-02-19T14:48:51.751+02:00The fact that he was able to "overcome" ...The fact that he was able to "overcome" (your word) his lack of a complete high school education to get to where he is today only strengthens the questions. How could he be touting the importance of an education when he didn't even complete a basic one himself, without even addressing as to why that is (maybe he missed one exam because of an illness, but his education was otherwise complete, something like that)?<br /><br />The comparison to kiruv seems a bit out of place. In that case, someone who has taken a journey is serving as a guide to those beginning a similar path. However, we don't want to encourage people to take the path Lapid did (i.e., to skip part of their high school education). In fact, we would probably want to show how they would be better off with it, not without it. (Your statement that "[v]ery often the best advocates are the ones who truly understand, from personal experience, what they are advocating for" is true, but usually their effectiveness comes from having suffered from their decisions, not having succeeded despite having made them; having not completed his education, Lapid lacks a certain amount of experience in the thing he is advocating for).<br /><br />Realize also that his educational plan is not to keep kids in school (although that may be a part of it), but concerns the content of the education to be given. Without explanation as to why he didn't view his own education as important, he lacks a certain degree of credibility in preaching the importance of education.<br /><br />You can argue that his educational background shouldn't matter. But to say that dropping out of high school before "become quite successful in many areas" (and not too long afterwards, if I'm not mistaken) actually gives him credibility when it comes to education is a very tough sell.<br /><br />Your point about how the message is sent is exactly my point. Especially given how much Israeli parties are tied together with the personalities leading the various parties (most people who voted party X say that they voted for the party leader), a message addressing how is education is lacking wouldn't seem out of line.yoni r.noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-8504271857770776602013-02-19T14:31:00.826+02:002013-02-19T14:31:00.826+02:00Dr. Calderon said it. I was only quoting her. The ...Dr. Calderon said it. I was only quoting her. The point I was making was not whether or not they are carrying a burden (I hate that word, as if serving your country is a burden; in any event, I wrote, and Dr. Calderon said, that they <i>feel</i> like they are carrying the burden), but that in her speech, Dr. Calderon equated the importance of both serving the country physically (through the army/national service and participation in its economy) and spiritually.yoni r.noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-21928877740927193912013-02-18T23:10:59.827+02:002013-02-18T23:10:59.827+02:00then I misunderstood what you were saying earlier....then I misunderstood what you were saying earlier. I didnt realize you were referring to the status quo and keeping a compromise position that others must respect. I understood you to be saying we must force everyone to keep torah umitzvos in general.Rafi G.https://www.blogger.com/profile/00699851287106903971noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-10056758269094592292013-02-18T20:37:12.786+02:002013-02-18T20:37:12.786+02:00A democracy is purposely made of up interest group...A democracy is purposely made of up interest groups with different and often opposing interests and needs. Keeping of halocha to the extent possible, should be no less an interest than any other groups' interest. Other sectors of society would prefer not to keep halocha. So in a democracy a compromise is made that we can all live with. In the modern state of Israel, that has meant that chuppos, kevuros, gerushin, the rabbanut, are all nominally Orthodox. That is what we refer to as the status quo. I don't believe it is unreasonable or unjustifiable.Chosidnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-37451129608727491302013-02-18T20:21:56.771+02:002013-02-18T20:21:56.771+02:00its not comparable. that is a specific situation, ...its not comparable. that is a specific situation, and it is only beis din that can force the get - not just anybody. even if someone would be given the power to force others to keep mitzvos, it would only be the beis din, or specifically a sanhedrin. I dont believe we, as individuals, have the right or the ability to demand others keep anything specific. we can try to influence, but we cannot force.Rafi G.https://www.blogger.com/profile/00699851287106903971noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-79449871269217360272013-02-18T20:15:44.128+02:002013-02-18T20:15:44.128+02:00It's comparable to the Rambam's psak regar...It's comparable to the Rambam's psak regarding a husband that refuses to give a get. We force him to voluntarily give.<br /><br />The response to that will be that it is not comparable as that is in a halachic state and the medina is a democracy. I don't particularly care. The Torah is not democratic. I'd much prefer someone does the right thing when forced than do the wrong thing voluntarily. Where to draw the line and how practical that is without ticking off too many people is another discussion. But in all scenarios, I am vehemently against giving any kind of recognition to the reform religion.Chosidnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-91641740820627602852013-02-18T19:18:04.652+02:002013-02-18T19:18:04.652+02:00I dont understand. you are of the opinion that we ...I dont understand. you are of the opinion that we must force people to do what we believe as far as keeping mitzvis? God gives free will but we are obligated to take it away?<br />Please explainRafi G.https://www.blogger.com/profile/00699851287106903971noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-65124238544167166902013-02-18T19:12:49.411+02:002013-02-18T19:12:49.411+02:00MKRDL: While I am passionate about my Orthodoxy a...MKRDL: While I am passionate about my Orthodoxy and have written books about it, we cannot force people to do what we believe.<br /><br />It's painful to watch someone with a yarmulke on their head encourage Jews to violate halocha. The one that will need to give a din vcheshbon is Dov. I refuse to give him any kind of rabbinic title after such disgraceful comments.<br />Chosidnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-81875193439976304792013-02-18T10:10:02.597+02:002013-02-18T10:10:02.597+02:00Now that I've thought about Yoni's first q...Now that I've thought about Yoni's first question more, I don't see the issue. I've also heard that Lapid didn't graduate, but have not taken the time to verify if it's true and if it is why. However, assuming its true, for starters, he has certainly overcome it and become quite successful in many areas. <br /><br />Further, while it would be lovely if our leaders were perfect role models in all areas, most of them are human and are not. And in some ways, having a deficiency in an area can help make a person more of an expert in trying to remedy that deficiency in others. Given that a large number of Israelis do drop out of high school it may be better to have someone advocating for education who understands the problem from the inside. Some of the best Kiruv workers are ones who have been Mekarved themselves. Very often the best advocates are the ones who truly understand, from personal experience, what they are advocating for. Think of parents who didn't finish high school or go to college and often how much harder to work to make sure their children have what they didn't. As parents are the ultimate role models, it's evident that that the caring for the future far outweighs the personal deficiency of the past.<br /><br />So to answer Yoni's question, the kind of message sent depends on the message itself and how its presented and not so much on the messenger's past. And I think Yoni need to do some soul searching and as himself if maybe this was more "ad hominem" than he thinks.Michael Lipkinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11501487897038161582noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-56230454469014798312013-02-18T07:21:29.485+02:002013-02-18T07:21:29.485+02:00Yoni said "those who learn full time feel tha...Yoni said "those who learn full time feel that they are carrying the spiritual burden of the country". There is little evidence that this is true and much evidence to the contrary. Halevi those who are dedicated to learning would demonstrate in some way, any way, that they actually care about the country. (They often do demonstrate the opposite.) <br /><br />Furthermore, the existence of programs like Hesdar completely invalidates the comparison as hesdar proves that one can do all things: learn to protect the country, fight to protect the country and then go to work. The Chareidi leadership and media keep trying to foist the specious nonsense on us that it's a zero sum game: either you learn or serve. And of course that is completely false. So question 2 is a non-starter and I wouldn't bother Dov with it.Michael Lipkinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11501487897038161582noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-9251948179981015722013-02-18T00:24:06.856+02:002013-02-18T00:24:06.856+02:00We know that one can be a great guy and do lots of...We know that one can be a great guy and do lots of mitzvot, but at the end of the day be treacherous to Eretz Yisrael and be damned. May all those who even think pragmatically, do tshuva. Eretz Yisrael is not ours to negotiate the exact same way that we cannot negotiate any other mitzva for 'peice'.<br />JoshAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-35337002931391490132013-02-18T00:08:12.965+02:002013-02-18T00:08:12.965+02:00Two education-related questions for Yesh Atid (if ...Two education-related questions for Yesh Atid (if you get a chance to follow up with Rabbi Lipman):<br /><br />1) It's well known that Yair Lapid never received a high school diploma. Given that he's pushing a domestic agenda, of which education is an important part, has he ever explained why he didn't get his diploma? This is not an <i>ad hominem</i> attack. Political leaders, especially leaders of parties are, like it or not, role models. What kind of message is he sending about the importance of education having not completed basic studies, and now gearing up to be PM in four years?<br /><br />2) Dr. Calderon, in her innagural speech, made reference to the fact that while those who work and serve in the army feel that they are carrying the physical burden of the country, those who learn full time feel that they are carrying the spiritual burden of the country, the implication being that both sides are correct. Given that this is the case, and that Yesh Atid will not compromise on the national-service burden-sharing part of its platform, how come we haven't heard anything about their refusal to compromise on an educational reform which introduces Torah to the curriculum? From Dr. Calderon's remarks (and the warm and "viral" response her speech received), it would seem that both would be equally important to the party.yoni r.noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-86550026545087696922013-02-17T20:55:12.778+02:002013-02-17T20:55:12.778+02:00Is it true that Rabbi Lipman stepped up and acted ...Is it true that Rabbi Lipman stepped up and acted like a man and a mentch by publicizing an intolerable situation of abuse against innocent young girls, thereby helping to bring the situation to an end, while other community leaders, and particularly those rabbis whose backing "Jack" thinks he should have sought, stood silently by instead of protesting?<br /><br />Good interview, Rafi. Go get 'em, Rabbi/MK Lipman!<br /><br />Baruch Gitlinnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-11339252303351367532013-02-17T20:55:01.136+02:002013-02-17T20:55:01.136+02:00I'm shocked that someone who is obviously inte...I'm shocked that someone who is obviously intelligent and educated still thinks, after all our experience, that land for peace will work.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-9000480395638449092013-02-17T20:24:45.307+02:002013-02-17T20:24:45.307+02:00what an amazing country we live in. a new immigran...what an amazing country we live in. a new immigrant can move here, learn the language, integrate and become a member of parliament within a decade! it's a proud reality, regardless if you agree with Dov Lipman or not.SDavidRamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14538367108960964416noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-5701406120040661452013-02-17T20:11:51.468+02:002013-02-17T20:11:51.468+02:00The extremists' behavior was the Chilul Hashem...The extremists' behavior was the Chilul Hashem. Going to the media stopped it.Michael Lipkinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11501487897038161582noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-10358009877625372472013-02-17T19:31:53.186+02:002013-02-17T19:31:53.186+02:00Is his Semicha framed and sitting next to his Hopk...Is his Semicha framed and sitting next to his Hopkins diploma?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-60761912431604061692013-02-17T19:26:48.592+02:002013-02-17T19:26:48.592+02:00a Hebrew blogger posted such an anonymous claim on...a Hebrew blogger posted such an anonymous claim on his site the other day. I linked to it, with Lipman's response that ""I have no idea if it is true and I am not going to spend time on such speculation. It is tragic that we have reached a point where there is even discussion of this kind. I am busy focusing on working for the people of Israel and especially to help the chareidi population."<br />Stay Connected to your MailBox when on the move, you go with BlackBerry from Cellcom! Get access from your mobile device to your mailbox anytime, when out and about."Rafi G.https://www.blogger.com/profile/00699851287106903971noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-64834908827669538152013-02-17T19:23:25.723+02:002013-02-17T19:23:25.723+02:00I dont know the relevance of this question, but I ...I dont know the relevance of this question, but I also dont know the answer. you'd have to ask him. Rafi G.https://www.blogger.com/profile/00699851287106903971noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-77746234011415574602013-02-17T19:14:30.671+02:002013-02-17T19:14:30.671+02:00is it true that lippman went to the new york times...is it true that lippman went to the new york times with the orot story with no rabbinic backing causing an even more masssive chilul Hashem? jacknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-28029472550742541792013-02-17T18:31:43.133+02:002013-02-17T18:31:43.133+02:00Is it true that the Chareidi MK's didn't c...Is it true that the Chareidi MK's didn't count him for a Minyan?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com