tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post1234309941464094708..comments2024-03-29T11:40:46.477+03:00Comments on Life in Israel: Interesting Psak: remarrying without a gettRafi G.http://www.blogger.com/profile/00699851287106903971noreply@blogger.comBlogger18125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-45672383086033856112018-02-01T15:31:49.444+02:002018-02-01T15:31:49.444+02:00Maaseh Rav p 276Maaseh Rav p 276MiMedinat HaYamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12873881615861319718noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-17295404661110687592018-02-01T09:36:17.664+02:002018-02-01T09:36:17.664+02:00I give up. You can only say the same fact so many ...I give up. You can only say the same fact so many times.Nachumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11292162031685942549noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-28869479604304506602018-01-30T23:52:25.234+02:002018-01-30T23:52:25.234+02:00As a Cohen, you should know about this. The GRA i...As a Cohen, you should know about this. The GRA in Maaseh Rav haShalem p 276 wanted to do things to bring the geulah closer: abolish the (supposed, per you) cherem rabbenu gershom about two wives (which by the way, expired at the end of the fifth millennium, meaning year 5000), and reinstitute daily birkhat cohanim.<br /><br />As for documentation of the cherem, its very generally discussed in SA. Like I said above, its more of a minhag custom than a cherem (whatever cherem means).MiMedinat HaYamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12873881615861319718noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-58615140415712191902018-01-30T21:21:55.638+02:002018-01-30T21:21:55.638+02:00I heard the "bad marriage" line as well....I heard the "bad marriage" line as well. It has to be a myth, considering that there's no evidence R' Gershom even made the takana in the first place. (The takana exists; who made it is another question.)Nachumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11292162031685942549noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-40484985195303728422018-01-30T11:19:37.672+02:002018-01-30T11:19:37.672+02:00interesting.thanks.
btw, from what I remember the ...interesting.thanks.<br />btw, from what I remember the reason for the cherem was an experience that rabbeinu gershom had personally, when he married a second wife that was much younger and she ended up leaving him for a goy, a general who ended up causing a lot of problems for the jewish community. I dont remember the details of the story but from what I read about that, this incident made rabbeinu gershom feel it was a bad idea.Rafi G.https://www.blogger.com/profile/00699851287106903971noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-7932145805377619882018-01-30T09:38:06.079+02:002018-01-30T09:38:06.079+02:00I doubt the claim of the Gra is any more documente...I doubt the claim of the Gra is any more documented than a required "renewal."<br /><br />Jews tend not to have more than one wife anyway.Nachumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11292162031685942549noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-86688456051936442822018-01-30T09:37:07.266+02:002018-01-30T09:37:07.266+02:00As I said above, as there's no documented basi...As I said above, as there's no documented basis for the cherem (which of course doesn't mean it isn't in effect), there can be no documented "expiration."Nachumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11292162031685942549noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-91619843732473105372018-01-30T09:36:05.547+02:002018-01-30T09:36:05.547+02:00Like I said, it never really lapsed, but the Chief...Like I said, it never really lapsed, but the Chief Rabbinate formally re-accepted it after independence. That includes all kehillot, and no one protested, so there it is.<br /><br />Of course people who made aliyah with more than one wife were allowed to keep them.<br /><br />(It should be pointed out that polygamy was pretty much nonexistent in the Jewish world, at least outside of countries- Islamic ones, that is- where it was practiced by the wider population, and even then it was rare. Post-Matan Torah, the only non-king in Tanach with more than one wife is Elkana, father of Shmuel, and that was a special case. In all likelihood, no Jew in Europe at the time of Rabbenu Gershom had more than one wife anyway. There are claims the cherem was made because Christians attacked Jews for allowing polygamy even if they didn't practice it.)<br /><br />Then in the 1970's Ovadia Yosef began working against what he saw as Ashkenazic "halakhic cultural imperialism." One result of this is that polygamy is *slightly* more permitted in the Sephardic world. No one is allowed to actually have two wives, of course, but there are technical circumstances where polygamy being permitted makes some things easier. For example, this isn't exactly polygamy, but Yibum was still practiced in some Mizrachi communities. It no longer is, but if it's *technically* allowed, that makes certain aspects of divorce and remarriage easier to handle.<br /><br />Anyway, this case may be related to that last point. No one is literally married to two women, but it makes the beit din's job- and the couple's lives- a bit easier at times if it's not dismissed out of hand.Nachumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11292162031685942549noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-32036255925224333352018-01-29T15:52:27.773+02:002018-01-29T15:52:27.773+02:00It was never formally renewed.
Think of it like a ...It was never formally renewed.<br />Think of it like a minhag accepted by all. (Even taimanim Yemenites, Afghanis (I know of one with two wives, one in America, one in Israel), Iraqis.)<br /><br />Some exceptions -- yibum (for those who do yibum (per ROY), olim with two wives (like my Afghani friend (actually, its his grandfather; the whole family and community is OK with it), and this case (woman refuses to submit to bet din, per RAEiger).<br /><br />Note too, the GRA wanted to do away with the cherem.MiMedinat HaYamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12873881615861319718noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-79700736174347169912018-01-29T14:36:55.653+02:002018-01-29T14:36:55.653+02:00I too have heard that the cherem is finished with ...I too have heard that the cherem is finished with no renewal, but have not heard of the batei din acting in accordance. perhaps by now they consider it a minhag or maybe as claimed above it was renewed. or maybe they just dont want to go back to allowing marriage to more than one wife, especially because it is illegal anyway.Rafi G.https://www.blogger.com/profile/00699851287106903971noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-28587595489888989702018-01-29T14:35:40.480+02:002018-01-29T14:35:40.480+02:00I never heard it was renewed. is there anything wr...I never heard it was renewed. is there anything written about this? documentation? what was the process?Rafi G.https://www.blogger.com/profile/00699851287106903971noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-80173493851744413332018-01-29T14:05:29.465+02:002018-01-29T14:05:29.465+02:00Takanat Rabbanu Gershon expired a long time ago......Takanat Rabbanu Gershon expired a long time ago...Momohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16199061669792866789noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-79306919491483840382018-01-29T12:30:23.939+02:002018-01-29T12:30:23.939+02:00There was a trick question on the bar exam when I ...There was a trick question on the bar exam when I took it- as part of the family law section, they asked a question about bigamy, even though that's part of the criminal law, not the marriage one. Maybe the Rabbinate just ignores everything that's not halakhic.Nachumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11292162031685942549noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-35782648721284575872018-01-29T12:27:51.644+02:002018-01-29T12:27:51.644+02:00That's something of a myth, as we don't ev...That's something of a myth, as we don't even know *who* made the cherem (we know for certain of only one cherem of Rabbenu Gershom, against reading someone else's mail), let alone when and for how long. Regardless, Rabbenu Gershom died less than a thousand years ago; moreover, the cherem was renewed when the State of Israel was created.Nachumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11292162031685942549noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-19473905509803968852018-01-28T20:25:13.974+02:002018-01-28T20:25:13.974+02:00There is something extremely odd about this story....There is something extremely odd about this story. To the best of my knowledge (and I heard this directly from the Chief rabbi), in Israel they almost never use Heter 100 Rabonim, let alone allow someone to remarry without a Gett (only exception is if the woman is physically unable to accept a gett, e.g., she is in a coma).<br />If a woman refuses to accept a gett against the orders of a Beit Din she is treated the same way as a man who refuses to give a gett, i.e., they apply pressure such as withholding passport and drivers license, apply social pressure, and if that doesn't work imprisonment.<br /><br />Rabbi Lau said that there are current;y no women in prison for refusing to accept a gett, but only because the cases he dealt with all accepted a gett after the threat of prison.Michael Sedleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02684514303911193073noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-52733406003866381782018-01-28T19:48:10.200+02:002018-01-28T19:48:10.200+02:00Is cherem Rabbenu Gershom still in effect ? Has it...Is cherem Rabbenu Gershom still in effect ? Has it not expired after a thousand years ?Thomashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18270120178757817560noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-36323603541613931922018-01-28T18:57:06.423+02:002018-01-28T18:57:06.423+02:00beis din always has ways around that. they simply ...beis din always has ways around that. they simply say they dont believe her and say she is saying it just to make trouble, or other methods.<br />assuming there is no way out of it, doesnt she still have to accept a gett, which is what she is refusing to do. can beis din accept it on her behalf?Rafi G.https://www.blogger.com/profile/00699851287106903971noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-24431177132546189182018-01-28T18:16:19.410+02:002018-01-28T18:16:19.410+02:00The story is problematic. If she had an affair, th...The story is problematic. If she had an affair, then it would be אסור to remain with her husband even if both wanted to. samhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00347711971522389333noreply@blogger.com