tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post1954169307288353272..comments2024-03-29T11:40:46.477+03:00Comments on Life in Israel: strawberries and creepy crawly thingsRafi G.http://www.blogger.com/profile/00699851287106903971noreply@blogger.comBlogger23125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-91978979117007159432009-04-30T23:04:00.000+03:002009-04-30T23:04:00.000+03:00LOZ - I sometimes like to go out on a limb. test t...LOZ - I sometimes like to go out on a limb. test the edges. Hey - just that post, without actually waving the flag, is enough to get me in trouble!Rafi G.https://www.blogger.com/profile/00699851287106903971noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-90068129135079865912009-04-30T17:10:00.000+03:002009-04-30T17:10:00.000+03:00that was a joke, in case of any misunderstandingthat was a joke, in case of any misunderstandingLion of Zionhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10342299133387602141noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-22793974276224113772009-04-30T16:57:00.000+03:002009-04-30T16:57:00.000+03:00forget the bugs, what about the problem of support...forget the bugs, what about the problem of supporting a terrorist economy?<br /><br />RAFI:<br /><br />"Just for kicks, I bought strawberries on Friday for shabbos"<br /><br />sure, you're afraid about a little thing like celebrating yom haatzmaut, but you have no problem publicy flaunting a much bigger "aveirah" like eating strawberries. i'd watch my back if i were you.Lion of Zionhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10342299133387602141noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-61223641906815940602009-04-22T10:44:00.000+03:002009-04-22T10:44:00.000+03:00The claim is that the infestation spread from the ...The claim is that the infestation spread from the Arab to the Jewish fields.anon sahadeinoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-4319395500473152622009-04-22T09:23:00.000+03:002009-04-22T09:23:00.000+03:00another thing - if it is true that the infestation...another thing - if it is true that the infestation is because of the Arabs growing strawberries in low quality water because of shmitta, then only such strawberries should be infested. Jewish grown strawberries should be ok. Like the guy who sells in the merkaz mischari in RBS on Fridays is selling Jewish grown strawberries. Those you should be able to eat as normal, even if you won't eat the more prominent arab grown strawberry. <br />Is that correct?Rafi G.https://www.blogger.com/profile/00699851287106903971noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-19407593469986996762009-04-21T10:30:00.000+03:002009-04-21T10:30:00.000+03:00"does really" should be "does rely".
Sorry."does really" should be "does rely".<br />Sorry.anon sahadeinoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-67051287958443773362009-04-21T10:29:00.000+03:002009-04-21T10:29:00.000+03:00The thrips are visible to the naked eye, although ...The thrips are visible to the naked eye, although very difficult to spot. You may need to look for different angles.<br />Perhaps one could argue that this is not visible enough to make it prohibited, but I would like to hear a good proof or source for this idea.<br />As I mentioned, R. Moshe in chelek ches does mention the possibility but isn't machria, and even he in other teshuvos mentions that Romaine Lettuce needs a very careful bedika from tiny bugs which are the same color as the leaf. If you have ever tried to check lettuce you know that they are also pretty difficult to spot.<br />Even the Aroch Hashulchan, who at the end of siman 100 in Yore Dea (on the topic of b'ria eina b'teila) tries very hard to find limud zechus for not being so careful about tolaim does not mention this possibility. He himself says in hilchos tolaim where he talks about not being worried about microscopic bugs that something which is very tiny (dak min hadak) and is only visible in sunlight is still a problem. Sounds like anything which can be seen at all with the naked eye.<br /><br />I have another possible suggestion for the strawberry problem.<br />The rama and the shach pasken (and this is really a machlokes rishonim - the taz is machmir) that bittul depends on the inability to remove the offensive substance. In other words, even if it is visible or it might be encountered during eating, if it can not be completely removed it can be batel. <br />If it is indeed the case that there is no practical way to remove all of the bugs from a strawberry, then if one would get as much of as possible by washing/soaking with soapy water, the rest could be batel.<br />(Remember this rama and shach is shanuy bemachlokes, though. R. Heinemann of the Star-k does really on this sevara for broccoli.)<br /><br />What about beria eina betela?<br />Here we have a few solutions:<br />1. if less than 50 percent of the strawberries have bugs, than it is only a safek beria which is batel.<br />(But, if there is a way to accurately inspect them after then this wouldn't necessarily work, even if you need an expert to do the checking, because safek mechamas chesron yedia is not considered a safek.)<br /><br />2. If indeed the majority are infested, then we would have to resort to the Aroch Hashulchan's limuddei zechus, that beria is betela in 960, that beria which is davar maus is batel, etc.<br />I don't think that strawberries meet the AHS's criteria for shaas hedechak, though.<br /><br />If I am right, then we wouldn't even need to clarify the metzius of whether or not the washing method is completely effective, because mima nafsach, if it works then no bugs, if it doesn't so they are batel.<br /><br />This of course is assuming that there is no other practical way to remove all of them.anon sahadeinoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-66256495993227379112009-04-20T19:27:00.000+03:002009-04-20T19:27:00.000+03:00the bug books dont prove anything. they magnify al...the bug books dont prove anything. they magnify all those images at tremendous levels. just because the book shows you a picture does not mean it is visible to the naked eye.Rafi G.https://www.blogger.com/profile/00699851287106903971noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-83216096611602797152009-04-20T19:25:00.000+03:002009-04-20T19:25:00.000+03:00Everyone agrees that if you cant see them, then it...Everyone agrees that if you cant see them, then its not a problem. <br /><br />The issue arises in that you see them, you just dont know its a bug. Same problem as the NY water. You can see "dots" just you might not know its a bug. If you look at the bug books, youll see what Im talking about.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-19657141784135486942009-04-20T17:22:00.000+03:002009-04-20T17:22:00.000+03:00nope - same with lettuce. if you clean em and che...nope - same with lettuce. if you clean em and check em, then they "ain't there" l'halachashayagnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-12661065912240862352009-04-20T17:07:00.000+03:002009-04-20T17:07:00.000+03:00באתר של הרה"ג בן-ציון מוצפי http://www.mutzafi.tv...באתר של הרה"ג בן-ציון מוצפי http://www.mutzafi.tv מופיעים מאגר של שאלות שנשאל לאחרונה. העתקתי לפה שותי"ם בנושא של אכילת תותים.<br /><br />בברכת יאכלו ענוים וישמחו,<br /><br />שמעון א.<br /><br /> <br /><br />שאלה - 18793<br /><br />לכבוד הרב<br />שבוע טוב וחודש מבורך, הרב, האם מותר לקנות תותים להשרות אותם 10 דקות במים וסבון אח"כ לשטוף תחת זרם מים ולאכול? או עדיף להימנע?אנא כבוד הרב מה שיפסוק, נקבל באהבה.<br /><br />תשובה<br /><br />אין צורך להשרות במים, אלא לבדוק היטב שהם לא פגועים או כמושים.<br /><br /> <br /><br />שאלה - 15721<br /><br />לכבוד הרב שלום רב<br />האם זה נכון שיש בעיה עם אכילת תותים (מחשש לתולעים)וגם שטיפה עם סבון לא תועיל?<br /><br />תשובה<br /><br />מותר לאכול תותים ויש לבדקם מתולעים, בעיקר אם יש צד רקוב או פצוע.<br /><br />שאלה - 15629<br /><br />שלום לכבוד הרב<br />האם אסור לאכול תותים?<br /><br />תשובה<br /><br />מותר לאכלם אלא שיש לבדוק מתולעיםShimon Anoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-86266578041281582182009-04-20T14:13:00.000+03:002009-04-20T14:13:00.000+03:00BlackBeltStep - I did not. But misvara, the metho...BlackBeltStep - I did not. But misvara, the method that Star-K is recommending is a thorough wash in a bath of soapy water. If that is good enough to remove one insect from a strawberry, it's good enough to remove ten.<br /><br />This reasoning works as long as the "super-infestation" this year is a matter of degree, rather than quality. If there's a new type of bug that doesn't wash off in soapy water, then I agree, this method wouldn't be sufficient. But I haven't heard of any new bugs; just reports of above-normal rates of infestation of the usual critters.Shaul Bhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13657787388625188732noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-39313254611730726722009-04-20T13:36:00.000+03:002009-04-20T13:36:00.000+03:00Shaul - did you reconfirm that the Star-K method i...Shaul - did you reconfirm that the Star-K method is permissible even for this year's over-infested waste-water-grown crop?BlackBeltStephttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10449874015115985110noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-27586224079809984132009-04-20T13:17:00.000+03:002009-04-20T13:17:00.000+03:00I buy the largrest strawberries I can find and I d...I buy the largrest strawberries I can find and I do peel them- its not the biggest deal. You get used to it.jennoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-5772686241301968342009-04-20T11:48:00.000+03:002009-04-20T11:48:00.000+03:00Rafi G,
Not that you haven't trangsressed, rather ...Rafi G,<br />Not that you haven't trangsressed, rather that you are not chayav malkos. We pasken chatzi shiur assur mim hatorah. This isn't why they are advising to puree them. The advantage to pureeing them is that it is no longer "beria". Beria is aina betela (and also it wouldn't be batel, because it can be seen/removed). Even though, ein mevatlin issur lechatechila, one can nullify safek issur. I assume at least once the strawberries are washed in soap it is a safek whether any bugs are present.<br /><br />Shaul, I am glad that you can now comfortably consume whole strawberries. Enjoy. I'll have to check out the video.anon sahadeinoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-29583024603569906812009-04-20T11:12:00.000+03:002009-04-20T11:12:00.000+03:00rw - obviously you should not eat squished bugs ei...rw - obviously you should not eat squished bugs either, but if you did you have no transgressed the prohibitions of eating bugs....Rafi G.https://www.blogger.com/profile/00699851287106903971noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-91314096961924740552009-04-20T10:41:00.000+03:002009-04-20T10:41:00.000+03:00My Rav (in Israel) recommended that Star-K video t...My Rav (in Israel) recommended that Star-K video to me, saying, "That looks pretty reasonable."Shaul Bhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13657787388625188732noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-20620424983743504352009-04-20T10:37:00.000+03:002009-04-20T10:37:00.000+03:00Has anyone bothered checking with the Star-k if th...Has anyone bothered checking with the Star-k if the same method that is used in the US is sufficient in Israel?anon sahadeinoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-6903943913208854362009-04-20T10:33:00.000+03:002009-04-20T10:33:00.000+03:00This comment has been removed by the author.Shaul Bhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13657787388625188732noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-23852885788207364682009-04-20T10:26:00.000+03:002009-04-20T10:26:00.000+03:00Apikoros that I am, I still eat whole, unpeeled st...Apikoros that I am, I still eat whole, unpeeled strawberries. The <A HREF="http://www.star-k.org/cons-appr-vegetables-videos10.htm" REL="nofollow">Star-K</A> website has a great video for how to check and clean strawberries.Shaul Bhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13657787388625188732noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-67589312978130280942009-04-20T10:11:00.000+03:002009-04-20T10:11:00.000+03:00I have personally seen thrips on strawberries (bef...I have personally seen thrips on strawberries (before the recent supposed increase in infestation). You can see them with the naked eye, but often only if you know what to look for or if someone points it out to you.<br />One was pointed out to me crawling up a strawberry, and I never would have seen it had it not been pointed out to me. You have to get the light to hit it at the right angle.<br />Is this considered visible enough to make it prohibited?<br />I don't know myself, but I can tell you that the Aroch HaShulchan in hilchos Tolayim says it very clearly that even tiny bugs which can only be seen in the sunlight are prohibited and the Mishna Berura says the same thing in hilchos pesach where he discourages using lettuce for marror.<br />However R. Moshe Feinstein in Igros Moshe 8 YD 4 Siman 2 (and other places)<br />http://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=14679&pgnum=204<br />writes some possible ways to be lenient (including your sevara), but he doesn't present a final pesak.<br /><br />According to an agricultural source quoted at<br />http://parsha.blogspot.com/2007/07/thrips-on-strawberries.html ,<br />there was a significant increase in thrip infestation in 2006.<br /><br />See the responses from machon hatora vehaaretz about it, where they agree with R. Vaye's assessment.<br />http://www.yeshiva.org.il/ask/default.aspx?srch=1&orderby=&q=%FA%E5%FA+%F9%E3%E4&cat=1<br /><br />and here<br />http://muni.tik-tak.co.il/machon-hatora/web/shut/shut2.asp?id=111716 <br /><br />I also read, but I can't find the source now, that machon hatora vehaaretz did lab tests with strawberries and confirmed both the level of infestation and the fact that they cannot be totally cleaned with regular washing with soap and water. They are experimenting with a commercial washer.I believe that I also read there that the increase in infestation was caused by increase in Arab strawberry production for shemitta. They water with waste water. The infestation then spread to other fields.anon sahadeinoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-10659296821813109962009-04-20T10:02:00.000+03:002009-04-20T10:02:00.000+03:00Someone told me that they are ok if you liquidize ...Someone told me that they are ok if you liquidize them into a puree.<br />Squished invisible bugs are not treif.rwnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-6017885455202554832009-04-20T08:23:00.000+03:002009-04-20T08:23:00.000+03:00Not for kicks--serious blog research.Not for kicks--serious blog research.mother in israelhttp://amotherinisrael.comnoreply@blogger.com