tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post2636337798856415405..comments2024-03-29T11:40:46.477+03:00Comments on Life in Israel: My avatar is not greenRafi G.http://www.blogger.com/profile/00699851287106903971noreply@blogger.comBlogger33125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-13564246910368758142009-06-22T16:09:41.078+03:002009-06-22T16:09:41.078+03:00Elections in Iran were held for the first time in ...<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elections_in_Iran" rel="nofollow">Elections in Iran</a> were held for the first time in 2004.<br /><br />Looks like that was the initial crack in the wall of the fear society... like glasnost in the USSR.Shaul Bhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13657787388625188732noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-45769065113954129912009-06-22T15:32:31.349+03:002009-06-22T15:32:31.349+03:00are elections in iran new? Did they not have elect...are elections in iran new? Did they not have elections in the previous 30 years since the Ayatollahs took over?Rafi G.https://www.blogger.com/profile/00699851287106903971noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-11670804146038090202009-06-22T15:31:11.628+03:002009-06-22T15:31:11.628+03:00Rafi - they tasted freedom just by virtue of havin...Rafi - they tasted freedom just by virtue of having the right to elect the least distasteful of all the pre-approved candidates... and then they had to suffer the indignity of having even that tiny pleasure cheated out of them.<br /><br />Now they are hopping mad.Shaul Bhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13657787388625188732noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-91293179601771853472009-06-22T15:29:29.492+03:002009-06-22T15:29:29.492+03:00OMG - Shimon Peres has come out supporting the dem...OMG - <a href="http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/131987#replies" rel="nofollow">Shimon Peres</a> has come out supporting the demonstrators!<br /><br />I never thought I would see the day when I would congratulate Peres on a courageous and correct political move!<br /><br />Shehecheyanu v'kiy'manu...!Shaul Bhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13657787388625188732noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-28658402748417845722009-06-22T15:27:41.944+03:002009-06-22T15:27:41.944+03:00Shaul - you and Shari Arrison! :-)
I completely a...Shaul - you and Shari Arrison! :-)<br /><br />I completely agree, but one question - where and when did they taste freedom? nothing changed except they started protesting the way it has been.Rafi G.https://www.blogger.com/profile/00699851287106903971noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-82134795991189426312009-06-22T15:25:40.128+03:002009-06-22T15:25:40.128+03:00I'm starting to feel like a prophet... didn...I'm starting to feel like a prophet... didn't I call this a week or two ago? :)<br /><br />My feeling is getting stronger that this really is a revolution, because unless the regime carries out a Tiananmen Square style massacre, the people have shown that they have tasted freedom, and they're going going to settle for anything less than total regime change.Shaul Bhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13657787388625188732noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-74860589878042604662009-06-22T15:21:33.226+03:002009-06-22T15:21:33.226+03:00anon - I was also reconsidering my position.. the ...anon - I was also reconsidering my position.. the protests have taken on a life of their own and if it keep sup, it looks like there is a good chance it will not just be to replace ahamdinejad with a different idiot, but will be a complete overthrow and might get rid of the ayatollahs. A lot needs to happen, but it is not far fetched.<br /><br />That is something I could support.Rafi G.https://www.blogger.com/profile/00699851287106903971noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-41733211040213499592009-06-22T15:18:57.199+03:002009-06-22T15:18:57.199+03:00changed my mind. gotta support them. this has a l...changed my mind. gotta support them. this has a life of its own. <br /><br />one thing bothered me about this post - i dont know that iranians are antiisrael any more than that they are really antiamerican. theyre persian not arab, why should they care about the palestinians?the regime has an interest in demonstrating that shia islam can do what sunnis did not wrt israel and this makes their version of islam look good, but the palestinian conflict is IMO more ethnic/arab than islamic (islam is a pretext) and so why should iranians care?Caroline glick says the israeli radio in iran gets a million listeners and that they are not antiisrael. maybe more important i read that palestinians are down in iran (one iranian was saying davka palestinian, not hezbollah/lebanese) and doing crowd control, beating iranians, speaking arabic....thats not goingto make them popular!Guy i read quoted was complaining of all the money the regime sends them and that israel should crack down on them...dont know how widespread that is but i wouldnt take for granted that prowestern iranians are antiisrael. they are nationalistic but that neednt translate into agreeing with the regime on israel just as it doesnt on the us.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-46832513766549343332009-06-19T11:08:11.404+03:002009-06-19T11:08:11.404+03:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-37751386840612659602009-06-18T20:34:12.945+03:002009-06-18T20:34:12.945+03:00Top Mossad, Israeli Officials Echo Schlussel: Stop...<a href="http://www.debbieschlussel.com/archives/2009/06/top_israeli_off.html" rel="nofollow"><b>Top Mossad, Israeli Officials Echo Schlussel: Stop Siding With Mousavi (Who is Worse); Iranian Faux-Uprising is Stupid, Pointless</b></a>Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-57819064389431891872009-06-18T02:03:56.390+03:002009-06-18T02:03:56.390+03:00I can't figure out why the iranians aren't...I can't figure out why the iranians aren't allowing the reform figurehead to take power, something must be going on - maybe domestically. maybe they really are afraid of collapsing or needing to grant too many concessions, one can only hope and pray. or maybe they owe someone a favor and keeping ahmadajined in power has no larger meaning, who knows? I get the feeling no one really knows what's going on there in Iran, maybe even less than they knew about what Sadaam was up to.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-1348276876064409732009-06-17T17:10:33.259+03:002009-06-17T17:10:33.259+03:00Read Sharansky's book and see how close the Ir...Read <a href="http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0892216441?ie=UTF8&tag=fretho-20&linkCode=as2&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=0892216441" rel="nofollow">Sharansky's book</a> and see how close the Iranian regime is to collapsing. The only thing that can save them is if the West steps in to prop them up in the name of detente and regional stability. <b>That</b> would be the worst possible outcome.Shaul Bhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13657787388625188732noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-15139522168099646502009-06-17T17:06:20.885+03:002009-06-17T17:06:20.885+03:00shaul: I agree with your post but am concerned tha...shaul: I agree with your post but am concerned that supporting the protesters will lead to your possibility:<br /><br />"They will give in to pressure and either annul the election results or institute some kind of power sharing between the candidates. There will also have to be some kind of regime reform to accompany that if they want the people to calm down. Yet another crack in the fear society's brittle fortifications."<br /><br />which I fear could be the worst of all worlds, apparent reform while Iran continues the same policies <br /><br />Overthrowing the regime would be incredible, another tianmaman square a tragedy for iranians but at least make the nature of the regime clear - but I dont think it would make much of a difference to those who want to pretend though one never knows. My main worry is illusory reform. But I do wish them well and the protesters are courageous. I think it's unlikely, but would that they succeed in overthrowing the regime.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-19080991101341468752009-06-17T16:54:27.410+03:002009-06-17T16:54:27.410+03:00Rafi (not G):
In other words, "my enemy's...Rafi (not G):<br />In other words, "my enemy's enemy is my friend".<br />;)Shaul Bhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13657787388625188732noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-84464704354454730162009-06-17T16:53:07.781+03:002009-06-17T16:53:07.781+03:00Rafi not G.
As far as I can see it, anything bad t...Rafi not G.<br />As far as I can see it, anything bad that happens to the regime in Iran is good news for the jews. It is true that Mousavi also wants to nuke us but not all the protesters are really Mousavi supporters. There are democrats, communists and anarchists there as well. Instability and revolution in Iran is good for us, so I'm with the protesters, whoever they are.Rafi (S)https://www.blogger.com/profile/18103892755392538611noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-16316255403431378902009-06-17T16:53:05.663+03:002009-06-17T16:53:05.663+03:00Anon 16:48 - agreed, and that's pretty much wh...Anon 16:48 - agreed, and that's pretty much what I said <a href="http://sbehr.blogspot.com/2009/06/best-possible-outcome-x2.html" rel="nofollow">here</a> in my original response to the Iranian crisis...<br /><br />In summary, the best possible outcome is a total overthrow of the Iranian regime; next best is exactly what we have now. Worst would be for Moussavi to become Prez and allow everyone to pretend that he's a "reformer" (as they are already doing).Shaul Bhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13657787388625188732noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-21843879542857414252009-06-17T16:48:59.870+03:002009-06-17T16:48:59.870+03:00I actually think it's worse if the protesters ...I actually think it's worse if the protesters win and install their "Reform" candidate. I therefore have also been puzzled by the blogospheric reaction. All along, it's been a concern that they'd vote out Ahmadijaned, the public face would be new and the world and obama would declare a new beginning with Iran even as they continued the same policies wrt nuclear weapons. I think it's better to have ahmadijaned win and probably even better that the perception is that it was a rigged election, since that puts the world on notice about Iran with no excuses about reform that I think would not be more than a cosmetic change in actuality. Now that they are protesting the result, if the protesters succeed, it will be touted as even greater progress as the second to last commenter (If I understood the comment correctly) cast it. I wish the people of Iran well, but wishing them well doesn't mean that I wish they exchange one evil for another and if ahmadijaned stays, at least there will not be the excuse that we can't tell the character of the regime or are misled about their ruthlessness and intentions. Whereas otherwise, we will be told there's wonderful progress when I doubt a change in presidents would mean anything substantiveAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-92142268187811697312009-06-17T15:25:40.728+03:002009-06-17T15:25:40.728+03:00Shaul - hear you and that is something to consider...Shaul - hear you and that is something to consider.<br /><br />RH - Obama did not just not give them support. he pretty much equated the guy they are supporting with ahmadinejad and said there is no reason to support this guy, as he is the same.Rafi G.https://www.blogger.com/profile/00699851287106903971noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-56724497535698996632009-06-17T15:22:30.549+03:002009-06-17T15:22:30.549+03:00Obama is beinbg cautious not because he doesn'...Obama is beinbg cautious not because he doesn't like the regime, but because if America throws their support in for the protestors, it could actually hurt their cause instead of help. The USA throwing support into any ring is dangerous when it comes to the world because they do not like us and think we want to control everything. Say we want to help the protestors? Obviously that means it's American backed and the Americans are trying to take over again. It's touchy for us, that is why Obama pauses.<br /><br />However just because our government pauses, doesn't mean we do. <br /><br />It's one step at a time. The person they want in office is a Reform party member, and with this show of solidarity to the world, Iran may now be more open to listening. We are showing them we care and, instead of talking at them and telling them what to do, we're listening to them. This can open many doors because that simple guesture is very important. <br /><br />You are closing your ears because they aren't doing it exactly the way you want to, without seeing the possibility that can come from showing them we are all unified in their plight.<br /><br />I mean there's a lot of hate speech going on in your comments. Hate begets hate and all.R.H.noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-36444125517620914752009-06-17T15:21:34.673+03:002009-06-17T15:21:34.673+03:00Rafi - how could they possibly show solidarity wit...Rafi - how could they possibly show solidarity with us, even if they felt it? They are living in a fear society! They can't even protest their own government!<br /><br />If they have a negative perception of Israel, that's just because they, like our well-meaning but ignorant friend AvramG in Europe, are being fed a steady stream of antisemitic, anti-Zionist propaganda, with no counterbalance. So how can you blame them for having negative attitudes, when they have no access to alternative viewpoints? If they knew the truth, they would be on our side. <br /><br />Note the quotation from today's <a href="http://bit.ly/ynP4c" rel="nofollow">JPost</a>, from one of the protestors:<br /><br />Quote:<br />..."my brother had his ribs beaten in by those Palestinian animals. Taking our people's money is not enough, they are thirsty for our blood too."<br /><br />It was ironic, this man said, that the victorious Ahmadinejad "tells us to pray for the young Palestinians, suffering at the hands of Israel." His hope, he added, was that Israel would "come to its senses" and ruthlessly deal with the Palestinians.Shaul Bhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13657787388625188732noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-78023352101268021242009-06-17T15:09:17.759+03:002009-06-17T15:09:17.759+03:00Alright Shy Guy, I don't think you get what I ...Alright Shy Guy, I don't think you get what I mean. <br /><br />First of all I am not an Arab or a muslim for that matter. I just think it is a stupid and cold article. We are talking about people and not govermants. I get just as sad when I hear news that Israeli civilians have been hurt/injured/killed as if it was any other civilians. <br /><br />Here in europe we see news about soldiers killing people at the border. Isolating people without food, water or electricity...AvramGnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-81124839137321207282009-06-17T15:08:38.698+03:002009-06-17T15:08:38.698+03:00Shaul - I do nto doubt that there are Iranians who...Shaul - I do nto doubt that there are Iranians who are good people. i do nto doubt that there are individual iranians who have nothing against israel. I do not doubt that there are individual Iranians who could care less and are not interested in what happens here. I do not doubt any of what you say, on an individual level. At the Iranian society level you are wrong. Unless I see it form the Iranians themselves, then I will be wrong.<br /><br />But they are not looking to become a true democracy. They are looking to replace Ahmadinejad with another guy who will also be controlled by the Ayatollah. So why should I support that.<br /><br />Again - this does not mean I want to see people killed or their human rights trampled. But why should I show solidarity?<br />Did they show solidarity with the residents of Gush Katif when their human rights were being trampled as they were thrown out of their homes and cities? Did they show solidarity when Israelis were killed in bus bombs or in cafes?Rafi G.https://www.blogger.com/profile/00699851287106903971noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-55009743308179295272009-06-17T15:02:55.332+03:002009-06-17T15:02:55.332+03:00Rafi, I think you've read this wrong. I don&#...Rafi, I think you've read this wrong. I don't think the Iranian <b>people</b> are our enemies. The Iranian <b>regime</b> is a terrible enemy, and they've used us and the USA as their external enemies to divert their subjects' attention away from their own repression in order to preserve their own fear society. But if you look at what individuals in Iran are saying when they're not afraid of recriminations from their government - I don't think they're any more our enemies than, say, the people of France.<br /><br />I am personally in contact with one Iranian computer programmer, who was quite happy to discover that I was from Israel - he even thanked me on Israel's behalf for producing the Intel microchips!<br /><br />It is in our interest for the Iranian people to attain true freedom. If they became a true democracy, it wouldn't matter if they got a nuclear bomb - democracies do not go to war against other democracies. I'm also not going "green"; like you I don't think Moussavi is any better than Ahmadi. I want to see a full revolution, and just for that reason, I support the Iranian people and pray that their revolution succeeds.Shaul Bhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13657787388625188732noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-20278103658872759932009-06-17T14:57:45.996+03:002009-06-17T14:57:45.996+03:00Rafi, you didn't answer AvramG correctly. You ...Rafi, you didn't answer AvramG correctly. You should have said:<br /><br />Yours, AvramG, is the single most stupid post to have ever hit this blog. Why should we pay attention to your filthy, stinking, lying words, when the Arabs surrounding us have called for our extinction and emblazened it in their national charters. Men, women, children, old and young, bombing schools, hospitals, restaurants, buses, universities. Thank G-d we've tentatively been able to stop your terrorist Islamo-Nazi butcher friends through barriers, checkposts and succesful intelligence and military operations. Expect more of the same to come until you pals (so to speak) raise their white but soiled underwear in total surrender.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-68603083176331467502009-06-17T14:39:21.782+03:002009-06-17T14:39:21.782+03:00could be, but the truth is Barak Obama said someth...could be, but the truth is Barak Obama said something very similar yesterday when he said he is watching carefully but will not intervene as he sees little difference between Ahmadinejad and Moussavi.Rafi G.https://www.blogger.com/profile/00699851287106903971noreply@blogger.com