tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post2839598219444890628..comments2024-03-28T21:53:53.990+02:00Comments on Life in Israel: Netanyahu Supports Splitting Bet Shemesh Into Two CitiesRafi G.http://www.blogger.com/profile/00699851287106903971noreply@blogger.comBlogger14125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-14370948563401985312011-12-29T14:16:32.007+02:002011-12-29T14:16:32.007+02:00Dovid from Modiin: don't know if you read my a...Dovid from Modiin: don't know if you read my analysis of Charedi society as a fear society <a href="http://lifeinisrael.blogspot.com/2011/12/from-doublethink-to-dissent.html" rel="nofollow">here</a>, but based on that, your statement that "The Charedi Rabbonim must..." is like shouting into the wind. Either they are True Believers, in which case they will do no such thing, or else they are Doublethinkers, in which case they will be too afraid to do any such thing. I know of no dissident RBS-B Charedi rabbonim who are brave enough to stand up and condemn the violence loudly, forcefully and unambiguously. So forget about starting any sentence with, "The Charedim should..." They are living in a fear society, and the doublethinkers will not act alone; they need outside support to break out.<br /><br />Sharansky's solution as applied to Charedi society is simply that just as Reagan called the Evil Empire for what it was, we <b>outsiders</b> have to call the sikrikim for what they are: <b>evil</b>. They think they have G-d on their side, and so, lehavdil, do the Muslim terrorists. They cannot be reasoned or negotiated with; they have to be <b>defeated</b>. Completely. With overpowering force. Throw a bunch of them in jail with the strictest sentences the law allows, and do not show mercy to the cruel. ubiarta hara mikerbecha, v'chol Yisrael yishm'u v'yirau. Once you've dusted up the leading troublemakers, you encourage the "99%" (as Rav Horowitz calls the majority that I call the Doublethinkers) to stand up and be counted, and suddenly you have a more moderate and tolerant Charedi population that you can live with in peace and harmony, happily ever after.The Original Authornoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-8997522632515369782011-12-29T13:21:37.670+02:002011-12-29T13:21:37.670+02:00oops I forgot to sign - Dovid from Modiin.
The c...oops I forgot to sign - Dovid from Modiin. <br /><br />The charadim needs an incentive to resolve this issue. They should cease all building in RBS3 and stop issuing Tofes Arba. Maybe RBS3 should not be a separate town.<br /><br />They need to basically resolve this issue from two angles. Legal and education.<br /><br /><br />1) The legal aspect is to give the police and court systems more power by having the knesset implement the RICO act similar to the US. <br /><br />2) The second part is have all the Charadi leaders (including Rabbanim and MKs) needs to strongly condem the Extreme Tznius hashkafa of the Sikrikim/zealots and send a 10,000 Charadim to counter protest. They should not be imposing their made up chumrot on the public. Than again most people know that they are trying to change the area and drive down real estate.<br /><br />- Dovid from Modiin.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-80439076886845365442011-12-29T13:19:49.689+02:002011-12-29T13:19:49.689+02:00The charadim needs an incentive to resolve this is...The charadim needs an incentive to resolve this issue. They should cease all building in RBS3 and stop issuing Tofes Arba. Maybe RBS3 should not be a separate town.<br /><br />They need to basically resolve this issue from two angles. Legal and education.<br /><br /><br />1) The legal aspect is to give the police and court systems more power by having the knesset implement the RICO act similar to the US. <br /><br />2) The second part is have all the Charadi leaders (including Rabbanim and MKs) needs to strongly condem the Extreme Tznius hashkafa of the Sikrikim/zealots and send a 10,000 Charadim to counter protest. They should not be imposing their made up chumrot on the public. Than again most people know that they are trying to change the area and drive down real estate.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-74423853302258351842011-12-29T11:23:28.544+02:002011-12-29T11:23:28.544+02:00Maybe we should have a voluntary segregation and d...Maybe we should have a voluntary segregation and divide the city according to personal preference of each household. Pass around a ballot to each household, and you can elect whether you want your apartment to be governed by Beit Shemesh (and the laws of the State of Israel) or whether you want to secede and become part of the new municipality/city-state of Lech-Teda-Ech-Mistadrim-Bli-Acheirim-Sheyeshalmu-Et-Chesboniyotechem. Households that fail to return their ballot forms on time by default become part of the latter entity.<br /><br />My solution is no less practical, and will satisfy more people, than this proposal to separate RBS from old BS. They're both BS. Pun intended.Shaul Bhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13657787388625188732noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-37131568092173786772011-12-29T11:08:48.157+02:002011-12-29T11:08:48.157+02:00nice Yoni. I like it!nice Yoni. I like it!Rafi G.https://www.blogger.com/profile/00699851287106903971noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-58069827183500912462011-12-29T11:06:55.737+02:002011-12-29T11:06:55.737+02:00Considering the reaction that this proposal got fr...Considering the reaction that this proposal got from other MKs (and bearing in mind that <a href="http://lifeinisrael.blogspot.com/2011/12/benjamin-netanyahu-among-19-smartest.html" rel="nofollow">Bibi is one of the smartest people in the world</a>), it occurred to me that this may be a tactical move. Any suggestion that Bibi makes will be ridiculed. But this one is so bad that other MKs were not only railing against it, they were making their own suggestions. This required thought on their part on the issue. Now, when Bibi makes another suggestion, it will be met by a Knesset which has considered the issues and given thought to what types of solutions are practical and which aren't, which may yield a fruitful discussion for once.yoni r.noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-55072934753410378042011-12-29T09:40:59.873+02:002011-12-29T09:40:59.873+02:00that would have been a good solutionthat would have been a good solutionRafi G.https://www.blogger.com/profile/00699851287106903971noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-72003109385769997612011-12-29T09:14:33.342+02:002011-12-29T09:14:33.342+02:00I have said this before, that when we left Gaza in...I have said this before, that when we left Gaza in 2005, the anti-Zionists of RBS Beit should have been resettled there, killing 4 birds with one stone. One, we would be rid of them. Second,they would move into good housing. Three, they would be with their Palestinian friends living in Eretz Yisrael. Four, they would mind the place until we have to conquer it again. Alas, no one took my offer up. About the present situation, where does Nachala come - in the chariedi or secular city? I hope RBS is never classified as the chareidi city - I do not want to have to leave my home (now I know exactly how they flt in Gush katif). Anyway, Orot girls school is not even in RBS.Meirnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-79268469075526443192011-12-28T22:20:04.428+02:002011-12-28T22:20:04.428+02:00srugim don't consider beitar or quiryat sefer ...srugim don't consider beitar or quiryat sefer because these places have acceptance committees. trying to get in is a big haval al hatzmanben waxmannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-59541194938916344932011-12-28T18:07:49.406+02:002011-12-28T18:07:49.406+02:00You know, I think one solution to this might be to...You know, I think one solution to this might be to eliminate, or severely curtail, the yeshiva draft exemption. If these people all had to go into the army, some of them might just leave the country. Others might remain non-citizens, which would mean no right to vote. Moreover, it might give the government a legal way to expel these troublemakers in RBS B as undesirable aliens. That's besides the other reason for eliminating the exemption, namely basic fairness.Baruch Gitlinnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-77932577532908786662011-12-28T17:53:05.446+02:002011-12-28T17:53:05.446+02:00And what happens when they run out out housing in ...And what happens when they run out out housing in the Haredi city and start moving into non haredi cities? Any solution that involves retreating means the thugs won and we lostrachel qnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-19501366214395340342011-12-28T17:50:44.126+02:002011-12-28T17:50:44.126+02:00I'm with you, Rafi! Thanks a lot, Bibi - I did...I'm with you, Rafi! Thanks a lot, Bibi - I didn't move from Beitar to Beit Shemesh to end up in another haredi ghetto, where rabbis can disrupt family events at their leisure and order restaurants to close because couples might, chas v'shalom, sit together! If this is Bibi's idea of a solution, I think I may vote Labor next time.Baruch Gitlinnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-32810783086857167072011-12-28T17:44:51.194+02:002011-12-28T17:44:51.194+02:00This was my idea and posted to Akiva's post on...This was my idea and posted to Akiva's post on the issue. They will no absorb, it will take too many years.Neshamahttp://habayitah.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-13147369914562616592011-12-28T17:36:42.785+02:002011-12-28T17:36:42.785+02:00The ongoing difficulty is that part of supposedly ...The ongoing difficulty is that part of supposedly fringe Chareidi culture is an ongoing attempt to make living amongst other groups impossible. No matter how much accommodation these whack-jobs are offered they will simply come up with a new demand or stricture, declare it to be Torah MiSinai or Yehareg v'al Yaavor and then make lives miserable over it because that's what they want: you to be miserable.<br />Yees, I hear your frustration about having to leave RBS but think about this: how many of the post-Yuogslav wars and their carnage would have been avoided if all Croats had simply moved into Croatia, all Bosnians into Bosnia and all Serbs into Serbia? Instead, on principle of not wanting to give up their homes, they fought multiple bloody wars. No, it's not fair but life isn't. Different ethnic groups often have trouble living together and this time one group is defined by its desire to be difficult.Mighty Garnel Ironhearthttp://garnelironheart.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.com