tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post3406604570095714769..comments2024-03-28T09:43:50.919+02:00Comments on Life in Israel: Goy claims his chametz and doesn't get itRafi G.http://www.blogger.com/profile/00699851287106903971noreply@blogger.comBlogger12125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-23350643140347924522017-04-24T01:13:09.578+03:002017-04-24T01:13:09.578+03:00You're right. I mispoke. For some reason, I ...You're right. I mispoke. For some reason, I was only thinking about חמץ שעבר עליו הפסח.Mordechai Y. Scherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06774262478551329181noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-44726827500632478392017-04-23T04:48:57.951+03:002017-04-23T04:48:57.951+03:00I know a Rav who told me that he used to do this o...I know a Rav who told me that he used to do this on Pesach -- tell the goy to go to someone's house and demand the chometz.<br /><br />Also, although the goy is supposed to pay, the person is not allowed to take the money, as that is benefitting from chometz on Pesach. So the Jew would have to let him take it away for nothing.Bored Lawyernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-39398387105979028832017-04-23T04:47:01.820+03:002017-04-23T04:47:01.820+03:00Bal yiraeh -- Bal Yimatzeh is deoraysa. Those who...Bal yiraeh -- Bal Yimatzeh is deoraysa. Those who sell full chometz rely on the sale to get them out of it. (There are many who will not rely on the sale for that purpose, only chometz nuksha and the like.)Bored Lawyernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-67869192522712124682017-04-23T00:29:07.292+03:002017-04-23T00:29:07.292+03:00I think there is a famous story about Rav Vitman, ...I think there is a famous story about Rav Vitman, current rav of Tnuva, who made this mistake when he sold chametz in his young years and the goy did come to empty out the warehouse.<br />I agree with SB that the goy should indeed randomly from a couple of people, with the selling rav's authority, go take something to validate the sale. <br />I recall buying svhiit grape juice one year and when time came to make it hefker, I was so happy, with a full heart, that someone actually took a bottle.joshinarielhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12127992899810833166noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-24366724675093171122017-04-23T00:24:37.478+03:002017-04-23T00:24:37.478+03:00+1+1joshinarielhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12127992899810833166noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-42687844321107419012017-04-21T19:38:49.829+03:002017-04-21T19:38:49.829+03:00The sale is a legal fiction; not a sham. And it i...The sale is a legal fiction; not a sham. And it isn't even really a fiction. Unless, of course, one has no real intent to relinquish ownership of their hametz. When we arranged the sale locally, I always delivered some of our actual hametz to the purchasing goy. An "initial delivery". And I made it clear that it is his, and he is entitled/expected to consume it. And we didn't ask for it back after Pesah. No different than if you purchase an item with a down payment, use it for a time, and then return it for whatever reason. Whatever consumption/wear and tear has occurred under normal use is simply because you really took ownership; even though the item was returned the rest of the payment not completed.Mordechai Y. Scherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06774262478551329181noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-1921053532503647972017-04-21T19:34:53.917+03:002017-04-21T19:34:53.917+03:00The prohibition is a g'zeira d'rabbanan; n...The prohibition is a g'zeira d'rabbanan; not even close to karet.Mordechai Y. Scherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06774262478551329181noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-78726106840160020462017-04-21T13:53:09.739+03:002017-04-21T13:53:09.739+03:00The website cited and that carried the (supposed) ...The website cited and that carried the (supposed) story is entitled charedim.MiMedinat HaYamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12873881615861319718noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-32618016160367934062017-04-21T01:46:51.067+03:002017-04-21T01:46:51.067+03:00Avi, I wonder why you think this has anything to d...Avi, I wonder why you think this has anything to do with "Charedim". Sinas Chinam much?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-30923034430770190102017-04-20T20:36:32.376+03:002017-04-20T20:36:32.376+03:00Correction: only eating results in Kares. Still, ...Correction: only eating results in Kares. Still, owning is a clear prohibition.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-64984385630894517762017-04-20T20:29:22.348+03:002017-04-20T20:29:22.348+03:00In other words, the family never intended to sell ...In other words, the family never intended to sell their Chametz, which means the sale was invalid, and they owned Chametz on Pesach, which is a violation punishable by Kares. And the Rabbi had no problem with this.<br /><br />And people wonder why other Jews consider Charedim to be hypocrites and worse.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-75827275901946697392017-04-20T17:59:59.845+03:002017-04-20T17:59:59.845+03:00I have long thought the goyim should be encouraged...I have long thought the goyim should be encouraged to do this - pick one or two at random every year and claim it, to make sure everyone knows it's real. Part of the terms of the sale is that they pay an inflated price, so no-one should really have any problem with the goy taking it, as long as he pays up on the spotSB, Beit Shemeshnoreply@blogger.com