tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post5983398387892559707..comments2024-03-29T06:05:20.562+03:00Comments on Life in Israel: Interesting Psak: Double-Ring ceremony is invalidRafi G.http://www.blogger.com/profile/00699851287106903971noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-28441612228524878822013-08-15T17:41:37.554+03:002013-08-15T17:41:37.554+03:00ummm, no. a double ring ceremony is not jewish. ...ummm, no. a double ring ceremony is not jewish. a man wearing a wedding band, you have no basis to say this at all from here. your logic and deduction is very flawed.shaya ghttp://www.shayag.energy526.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-62665397818585442392013-08-14T16:59:24.323+03:002013-08-14T16:59:24.323+03:00Maybe he puts it on himself without any female sta...Maybe he puts it on himself without any female statement!yoninoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-3378258339394140862013-08-14T16:41:49.022+03:002013-08-14T16:41:49.022+03:00I was told that the husband giving the wife a wedd...I was told that the husband giving the wife a wedding ring was an act of kinyon. By her giving something in return that act of kinyon has been turned into a straight up trade nullifying the kinyon. ehwhyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06436676108396672275noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-63538024343285449212013-08-14T15:32:26.877+03:002013-08-14T15:32:26.877+03:00Rabbi Sedley, thanks for the confirmation. I was s...Rabbi Sedley, thanks for the confirmation. I was scared that I would not be able to come home tonight for fear of ichud and an invalid marriage. My wife insisted on giving me a ring, but the rabbi (who turns out to me a liberal one, only approved if it was after the ceremony (before the cup) and just as a present). Esser, baruch Hashem, I don't wear it anymore.joshnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-83105938849323288102013-08-14T15:27:05.448+03:002013-08-14T15:27:05.448+03:00I was at such a wedding in Israel. The officiator ...I was at such a wedding in Israel. The officiator interpreted rabbi Feinstein to allow it as long as 2 things: the couples alternative is not orthodox and there is a obvious separation between the man giving first and the woman giving second. I think he read the kesuba in between.SDavidRamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14538367108960964416noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-82708989404757240062013-08-14T14:16:00.868+03:002013-08-14T14:16:00.868+03:00I'm going to argue with the Psak, but I do won...I'm going to argue with the Psak, but I do wonder why it would be prohibited. The Gemara simply says that it doesn't work. It doesn't even hint that it is Assur to do so.<br /><br />And yes, wedding rings are not a Jewish innovation and were definitely copied from the surrounding culture. I don't know if that culture was Christian or not. That's irrelevant.Avihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15987913203857736139noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-56339087027317360812013-08-14T14:01:33.122+03:002013-08-14T14:01:33.122+03:00HA-HA! What did we tell you?
Wedding bands on men...HA-HA! What did we tell you?<br /><br />Wedding bands on men are not Jewish!<br /><br />====================================<br />and of course the Talmud is replete with sources of wedding bands for women. oops, never mind, it's not.<br />KT<br />Joel RichAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-45929082567219866762013-08-14T13:40:38.151+03:002013-08-14T13:40:38.151+03:00I understood, perhaps incorrectly, that a double r...I understood, perhaps incorrectly, that a double ring ceremony could be permitted if the text said by the woman does not mirror the marriage statement made by the man but is just a symbolic statement of love and commitment.Rafi G.https://www.blogger.com/profile/00699851287106903971noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-72205177125263841742013-08-14T13:17:18.399+03:002013-08-14T13:17:18.399+03:00Rav Moshe (Even HaEzer III:18) writes explicitly t...Rav Moshe (Even HaEzer III:18) writes explicitly that it is prohibited to perform a double ring ceremony. The fact that he holds that after the fact the wedding is valid (and the couple would require a get if they wanted to divorce) does not allow a Rabbi to officiate at such a ceremony. Rav Moshe only permits the wife giving a ring after the ceremony without saying any words.<br />I think it clear from the Gemara (Kiddushin 4b) that a wife giving a ring while reciting this formula is not the correct thing to do:<br /><br />הוה אמינא היכא דיהבה (ליה) איהי לדידיה וקידשתו הוו קידושי כתב רחמנא כי יקח ולא כי תקח<br /><br />And had Scripture written: ‘and she shall go out for nothing,’ I would have thought, if she [the <br />wife] gives him [the husband] money and betroths him, it is valid Kiddushin: therefore Scripture wrote, ‘when a man taketh’, but not, ‘when a woman taketh’<br /><br />So, I'm not sure what is interesting or novel about this p'sak. If someone argued on Rav Moshe, and was able to explain the Gemara and demonstrate that a double ring ceremony is permitted it would be an interesting p'sak.<br />Surely we expect Rabbis to follow the normative halacha. When they do so it should not be newsworthy.Rabbi Sedleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03216379873253870218noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-74912105012738336522013-08-14T13:10:02.145+03:002013-08-14T13:10:02.145+03:00HA-HA! What did we tell you?
Wedding bands on men...HA-HA! What did we tell you?<br /><br /><b><a href="http://esseragaroth.blogspot.com/2008/05/take-em-off-now.html" rel="nofollow">Wedding bands on men are not Jewish!</a></b>Esser Agarothhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12853681733864707489noreply@blogger.com