tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post6647793225312747236..comments2024-03-28T15:14:16.180+02:00Comments on Life in Israel: The parts or the whole - which is greater?Rafi G.http://www.blogger.com/profile/00699851287106903971noreply@blogger.comBlogger12125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-82944158725346009332008-12-18T12:00:00.000+02:002008-12-18T12:00:00.000+02:00that is all true, but it all happened after the su...that is all true, but it all happened after the success of the Mafdal, when they had already made themselves irrelevant and a one issue party.<BR/><BR/>With Shinui, even though they did not draft the yeshiva bachurim, they did minimize Shas' influence, which was really their greater fight. Since then Shas has regrown, but at the time they were successful.Rafi G.https://www.blogger.com/profile/00699851287106903971noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-83407205319980473872008-12-18T11:56:00.000+02:002008-12-18T11:56:00.000+02:00The problem is that neither Mafdal nor (Lhavdil) S...The problem is that neither Mafdal nor (Lhavdil) Shinui, are so successful. <BR/>Shinui's main issue was drafting Yeshiva students, and they did nothing on that score. The DL tzibbur lost the Rabbanut, and the Rabbanut has made themselves a bureaucracy rather than a makom Horaah. The army is trying to force Hesder students to serve with Chilonim (an issue wish Hesder Roshel Yeshiva are divided on , admittedly) and regular non-Hesder soldiers are often forced to serve in mixed units. The list can go on and on how the DL worldview is getting hit and hit, (Shmitta, Charedi Dayanim almost exclusively) despite the fact that most religious people are still DL.Eli Dukerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10733438132131254422noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-28038289731564064942008-12-18T11:31:00.000+02:002008-12-18T11:31:00.000+02:00eli - I read an interesting article recently somew...eli - I read an interesting article recently somewhere. It explained why Mafdal is having such problems now. It described Mafdal as being in a similar situation to Shinui (lehavdil).<BR/>In the sense that it is a victim of it is own success.<BR/><BR/>the haredi parties are successful because they fight for their sector, and their sector is mostly very insular. So it perpetuates itself.<BR/>Mafdal on the other hand has fought to bring religion and religious functions to the general state and public domain. They were so successful that now they are basically irrelevant. That is why they have become mostly a one issue party - because all the issues they used to be involved in are no longer issues, for the most part, and all that remains for them are the fight over the settlements.<BR/><BR/>This is like Shinui because they were successful in fighting haredi public influence (i,e, Shas) in its time, that people saw no reason to vote for them any longer....Rafi G.https://www.blogger.com/profile/00699851287106903971noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-36551555872500202312008-12-18T11:26:00.000+02:002008-12-18T11:26:00.000+02:00The issues in UTJ and BhY are very different.UTK u...The issues in UTJ and BhY are very different.<BR/>UTK used to be the sectoral Aguda which now poiltically broke into subsectors (and in the case of Aguda sub-sub sectors). All of them will fight until the last moment but at the last minute they won't shoot themselves in the foot.<BR/><BR/>The Dati Leumi issue is must different. Its tzibbur feels uncomfortable with voting for a sectoral party, and thus the party has a hard time packaging itself to its own tzibbur. With moderates and Manhigut backing Likud, they have a hard sell. If they go the EY route they come across as a one issue party, (and some will vote for Marzel anyway), if they don't then Ichud Haleumi types won't like it. The DL can't use their influence in the Likud either, because they aren't organized with the exeption of MY whose to interested in their revolution to deal with the Rabbanut and DL Mosdos.<BR/>BiKitsur Gimmel will get their act together while Habayit Hayehudi won't be the size of a tzimmer.Eli Dukerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10733438132131254422noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-27987955935821666762008-12-18T10:39:00.000+02:002008-12-18T10:39:00.000+02:00there is a very good chance, even if they run toge...there is a very good chance, even if they run together, that AY and GHT will lose at least one seat. People are very upset at them, after the recent municipal elections, both in jerusalem (especially) and in other places.<BR/><BR/>A lot of peopl eare talking about voting Shas instead of UTYJ. They would do this because is still a haredi party, so it is a viable option (rather than voting Likud or Marzel - both of which always get some haredi votes)Rafi G.https://www.blogger.com/profile/00699851287106903971noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-31447884719434646742008-12-18T10:32:00.000+02:002008-12-18T10:32:00.000+02:00I don't think that AY and DHT running separately w...I don't think that AY and DHT running separately will do too much damage to either of them. They can still have a vote combining agreement between the two, so they won't lose seats. They'll just have to share a seat.<BR/><BR/>I don't think they'll get anymore than five. I think some Haredim will vote Likud and secretly for Marzel, even if it's against the wishes of Rabbeim.Esser Agarothhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12853681733864707489noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-23272862095312722622008-12-18T10:28:00.000+02:002008-12-18T10:28:00.000+02:00B"HWhy? Votes and seats.A unified message and "wo...B"H<BR/><BR/>Why? Votes and seats.<BR/><BR/>A unified message and "working together" for a common goal would also get them votes, because voters might see that they would have the potential to make a difference.<BR/><BR/>The lines between Tequmah and NRP are still not as defined as they could be. The same goes for Moledet and HaTikvah.<BR/><BR/>They either need to define themselves better or get together,...leaving the NRP in the dust to die, of course.<BR/><BR/>Say what you will about Marzel, positive or negative, but I am concerned that he may also lose a seat for the right, as I don't think he'll make the threshold.<BR/><BR/>But no one wants to join with him. They think that demonizing him will help them. I'm not so sure.<BR/><BR/>I don't think anyone is placing too much importance on the right wing, secular vote, except Netanyahu secretly.<BR/><BR/>HaTikvah hasn't really done much publicity. Yet Marzel's charisma is attractive to Beitar Yerushalyim fans and youth.Esser Agarothhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12853681733864707489noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-72051000468620505382008-12-18T09:55:00.000+02:002008-12-18T09:55:00.000+02:00they won't believe you. What we have to do is not ...they won't believe you. What we have to do is not vote for them this time, and then next time they will realize we are seriousRafi G.https://www.blogger.com/profile/00699851287106903971noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-56921215375183276742008-12-18T09:49:00.000+02:002008-12-18T09:49:00.000+02:00we should create a public protest, and bombard all...we should create a public protest, and bombard all parties with faxes, letters, emails etc. stating that we will vote for them (whoever 'them' is...) ONLY if they run together.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-66381576803991932732008-12-17T22:54:00.000+02:002008-12-17T22:54:00.000+02:00Looks like the 'whole' isn't so 'whole' anymore. W...Looks like the 'whole' isn't so 'whole' anymore. <BR/>We really need a lot of siata d'shmaya!Risa Tzoharhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05012097234847651866noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-2825898418461951292008-12-17T20:28:00.000+02:002008-12-17T20:28:00.000+02:00sepArate. DiLeMMa.sepArate. DiLeMMa.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-48145043392118179032008-12-17T20:16:00.000+02:002008-12-17T20:16:00.000+02:00Isn't achdus a great thing?Isn't achdus a great thing?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com