tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post702528011546502474..comments2024-03-28T09:43:50.919+02:00Comments on Life in Israel: Rav Benny Lau Upsets Many With Comments About Prayers For Rav ElyashivRafi G.http://www.blogger.com/profile/00699851287106903971noreply@blogger.comBlogger35125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-77448394162866559412012-02-17T15:48:06.095+02:002012-02-17T15:48:06.095+02:00Unfortunately, the haredi gedolim are not offering...Unfortunately, the haredi gedolim are not offering viable solutions for the future of Judaism. We need more rabbis like HaRav David Bar-Hayim.Shlomonoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-32430319590761799602012-02-16T17:19:34.737+02:002012-02-16T17:19:34.737+02:00Again, the point of tefilla is NOT to give the RBS...Again, the point of tefilla is NOT to give the RBSO permission to do what He thinks is best. Of course He will; it is the opportunity that He gave us to communicate with Him about what we want. The point is for us to consider why we want what we are asking for and hopefully realize that most people are using and dehumanizing rabbanim like Rav Elyashiv for their personal/communal interests and don't even have the ability to see him as as person in pain! It's just sick.xyznoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-55399387999407965422012-02-16T16:49:07.884+02:002012-02-16T16:49:07.884+02:00My parents claim I suffered quite a bit because th...My parents claim I suffered quite a bit because they judged the high school I eventually wound up in- to my benefit- based on how the students dressed. It took a bit of trouble in the "better" places before I wound up there, though.<br /><br />Kol HaKavod to R' Lau for having the courage to say aloud and publicly what many of us have been thinking and whispering. (Full disclosure: I daven in his shul and have long enjoyed his shiurim and books.)Nachumnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-26943996875630571652012-02-16T14:13:03.268+02:002012-02-16T14:13:03.268+02:00Mark,
I agree 100% about the kids in the park. Un...Mark,<br /><br />I agree 100% about the kids in the park. Unfortunately they have been labeled (mostly by those in the charedi/yeshivish circles).<br /><br />That is why I used "" when saying park kids.<br /><br />They are nice kids, with big hearts that are simply looking for a place to hang out.<br /><br />Having been brought up in a place devoid of social activities (ie bowling,malls, etc.) they go to the only place that is open and they can be themselves.Chaninoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-75449218159547671312012-02-16T12:31:30.176+02:002012-02-16T12:31:30.176+02:00I think we should ask an Askan to get a Psak from ...I think we should ask an Askan to get a Psak from R. Elyashiv on what to do...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-42085509864839325022012-02-16T11:47:32.438+02:002012-02-16T11:47:32.438+02:00Sorry to go off topic...
"Imperfect World&qu...Sorry to go off topic...<br /><br />"Imperfect World", I quote: "girls at some DL schools are really pushing the halachic envelope in terms of hanging out with boys, pants under skirts, 19 earrings between two ears, one nose and sometimes other features". <br /><br />And you think that by sending them to a Haredi institution where they will experience cognitive dissonance between what they do and think and what they are taught is going to help them grow spiritually and personally? Seriously, what do you care about? About external appearances or internal strength? Why do you only decry the external superficial supposed appearance of our dear DL daughters? What about their strong characters, their ideals and spirituality, their courage, their <i>hessed</i> and their involvedness? Where do you get this stereotype from and do you think you will be safe from it? What is the worst scenario that could happen to your daughter? That she should wear pants under her skirt? Like what halacha exactly is she "pushing the envelope" on that? That she shouldn't have too many earrings? What DL schools are you thinking of when you describe a Goth-Punk dress style? And the way she dresses is worst thing that can happen to her?<br /><br />I'm sorry but this self satisfied superficial stereotype scare tactics really annoys me. "I send my daughters to a Haredi institution so they will be <i>eidel</i> not like your Goth supposedly religious daughter".Rafi (S)https://www.blogger.com/profile/18103892755392538611noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-59308718512433656202012-02-16T08:31:01.466+02:002012-02-16T08:31:01.466+02:00azh,
You are right that the talmidim continued da...azh,<br /><br />You are right that the talmidim continued davening, but according to the Ran and R' Moshe <b>they were wrong</b> and we pasken like Rebbe's maid that proper thing to do at that time was to daven for Rebbe's death.blukehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03774763780910614203noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-11471961765950805072012-02-16T06:13:28.711+02:002012-02-16T06:13:28.711+02:00While the Halachic discussion is instructive and i...While the Halachic discussion is instructive and important, it is important to note that the historic fact is that the students of Rabi Yehudah Hansi did not make a decision to stop praying. <br /><br />That is what happened then and that is what has happened when great people fell ill throughout history, until today. <br /><br />I, for one, will be 'meikel' and follow Rav Chaim Kanievsky's psak.azhnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-55272964955651893632012-02-16T01:43:34.362+02:002012-02-16T01:43:34.362+02:00What on earth are "park kids"????
I'...What on earth are "park kids"????<br /><br />I'm guessing kids that hang out at a park. But is that such a bad thing? Where else should they hang out?Markhttp://twitter.com/Marksoflanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-43026986196026067002012-02-15T22:47:10.417+02:002012-02-15T22:47:10.417+02:00To Snag:
First of all on terminology:
I have alwa...To Snag:<br /><br />First of all on terminology:<br />I have always seen RBSA as an abbreviation for Ramat Bet Shemesh Alef, and not for the Ribono Shel Olam (which might be abbreviated RSO, but I am not fond of the proliferation of abbreviations anyway).<br /><br />As far as what the Kadosh Baruch Hu would do:<br />We always pray to Him, even though we know that He knows better than we do what should be.<br />There is the famous "SheHu Yimalei et Mishalot Libeinu LETOVAH" (That HE should fulfill our requests for the best), since only HaShem knows what is best in the absolute sense.<br /><br />So it seems to me to be quite proper to pray to HaShem for a person who is suffering; but we can only pray that whatever is best for the world occur. This could mean the person's miraculous recovery, or it could mean other things which would relieve the suffering. However, since only HaShem truly knows what is best, it is even possible that in some situations this might mean some additional suffering for the particular person (though we all hope not), if, for reasons known only to HaShem, that is what is best for the world.<br /><br />What we truly need to have is a bit more humility vis-a-vis our standing in the world, whether we be great Talmidei Chachamim or simple Jews.<br /><br />Remember that Gemara Berachot (in a passage which also mentions my name) uses Yishmael, the Kohen Gadol, as a metaphor for a common person; because, when compared to HaShem anyone and everyone is simply a common person!Catriel Levhttp://vehashalomvehaemmet.blogspot.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-1039258228978270452012-02-15T22:46:12.655+02:002012-02-15T22:46:12.655+02:00Snag - that leads to question the entire instituti...Snag - that leads to question the entire institution of prayer. Everything we ask for, one could say why ask for it or anything, doesnt the RBSO know what is best for us and will do the best as He sees fit?Rafi G.https://www.blogger.com/profile/00699851287106903971noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-20513875252555435162012-02-15T22:42:52.253+02:002012-02-15T22:42:52.253+02:00"Imperfect world", I think you would be ..."Imperfect world", I think you would be very surprised.Baruch Gitlinnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-46731233480145741452012-02-15T22:37:03.770+02:002012-02-15T22:37:03.770+02:00R' Snag,
Your question goes to the nature of p...R' Snag,<br />Your question goes to the nature of prayer - see here for a great summary: http://vbm-torah.org/archive/faith/12faith.htm<br /> each approach has strngths and weaknesses.<br /><br />As a general rule I try to remember to end my prayers with " that's what I think, but if you have a better idea, let's go with yours"<br /><br />KT<br />Joel RIchAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-91623786612779429452012-02-15T21:53:02.572+02:002012-02-15T21:53:02.572+02:00"I was taught that in such situations you pra..."I was taught that in such situations you pray that HKB"H does what is best for the individual in question."<br /><br />Reb Joel, what is your Hava Amina? That without the prayers the RBSA would NOT do the best thing?Snagnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-85172205947544326402012-02-15T20:55:00.062+02:002012-02-15T20:55:00.062+02:00tesyaa: interesting parallel to lubavitch, but the...tesyaa: interesting parallel to lubavitch, but they have grown by leaps and bounds since the rebbe died.<br /><br />re rav lau: does he truly believe that שהרב יוסף שלום אלישיב, שחי כל חייו בצניעות ובמסירות במטרה לשמור על עם ישראל מחובר לתורתו,<br />not that the man should suffer, but let us be honest about whom we are discussing.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-6828498034418554602012-02-15T20:27:09.359+02:002012-02-15T20:27:09.359+02:00Imperfect,
Perhaps you should take a look at Ahav...Imperfect,<br /><br />Perhaps you should take a look at Ahavat Yisroel/Rappaport.<br /><br />The girls there have a proper sense of tznius and a healthy outlook on life.<br /><br />No "pushing the envelope" there.<br /><br />And regarding the "park kids" (many of whom my husband and I have hosted, the majority are from Charedi schools. You should listen to what they have to say about the charedi system..they are quite wise and experienced.Chaninoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-73309811212593614432012-02-15T19:46:25.545+02:002012-02-15T19:46:25.545+02:00I understand why the Lubavitchers felt as if the w...I understand why the Lubavitchers felt as if the world was coming to an end when Rebbe was dying, but I didn't expect to see this among non-Chasidim. Maybe it's misplaced anxiety about economic factors and other issues that might mean the beginning of the end of the chareidi lifestyle?tesyaanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-35538072953002915992012-02-15T18:45:25.213+02:002012-02-15T18:45:25.213+02:00I think the takeaway here is less about "to d...I think the takeaway here is less about "to daven or not to daven" and much more about how we are viewing Rav Elyashiv: as an individual human being who is suffering and needs rachmei shamayim or as a communal talisman? Once again, most people seem to be missing the point.xyznoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-66230652345675869452012-02-15T17:42:57.124+02:002012-02-15T17:42:57.124+02:00Moshe: unfortunately painkillers and palliative ca...Moshe: unfortunately painkillers and palliative care are not everything. First of all they don't always work. Second even if you don't suffer as much physically, being trapped in your body, unable to move, see, study, having people taking care of your bodily needs, etc., etc., is in no way better. Really, even without physical pain, old age illnesses can be worse than death r"l.<br />I don't know Rav Eliyashiv situation, but I pray that he doesn't suffer either way. The rest I leave in the hands of He who knows best.Chanokhnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-5808039726236040782012-02-15T17:33:08.987+02:002012-02-15T17:33:08.987+02:001. Finally, a Rabbi who is able to express my tho...1. Finally, a Rabbi who is able to express my thoughts. I have been asking why people are literally freaking out that 90+ year old person - albeit a gadol - is sick and dying? I said tehillim too, but only with the thought of, let him get well or let him pass peacefully but take the pain away.<br /><br />|But people here are making it sound as if this is the worst thing to befall Judaism. granted we lose a posek, but really, how much of what is quoted in his name recently is really true anyway?<br /><br />to Confounded: that's why I chose a school that does not teach that idea of rebbe worship. There are some schools out thereshaya gnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-12316186233636855322012-02-15T17:04:26.363+02:002012-02-15T17:04:26.363+02:00Totally agree with Rav Lau and don't understan...Totally agree with Rav Lau and don't understand at all this idea of a rebbe's suffering as a kapara for people.Commenter Abbihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07753256568022159103noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-37399143603454465132012-02-15T16:56:35.933+02:002012-02-15T16:56:35.933+02:00Totally agree with R. Lau. Both with my father z&q...Totally agree with R. Lau. Both with my father z"l almost 11 months ago and with a friend of mine more recently, I davened for a peaceful end to suffering, not for a miracle cure in a hopeless situation.yshhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02592998197322068828noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-2977794087743876522012-02-15T16:26:30.569+02:002012-02-15T16:26:30.569+02:00R' Lau didn't make this up, he is simply q...R' Lau didn't make this up, he is simply quoting an Igros Moshe who applies the Gemara by Rebbe nowadays (1978). See <a href="http://jewishworker.blogspot.com/2012/02/should-we-be-davening-for-r-elyashiv-to.html" rel="nofollow">Should we be davening for R' Elyashiv to live? </a> for a more in-depth analysis.blukehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03774763780910614203noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-21015744414208221122012-02-15T16:24:44.339+02:002012-02-15T16:24:44.339+02:00Chani: Pray tell which schools I'm missing? I...Chani: Pray tell which schools I'm missing? If there's a (girls') school out there that takes both kodesh and chol seriously, has a sane hashkafa, and does not have a "pushing the halachic envelope" syndrome, I want to know about it.<br /><br />And as for the comment that some of the "park kids" come from Charedi schools - that is true, but let's look at the proportions. If as much as 10% of the "park kids" come from Charedi schools, I'll be very surprised.Imperfect worldnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-31882272317462709602012-02-15T16:18:36.439+02:002012-02-15T16:18:36.439+02:00There are schools in RBS that are not Charedi or D...There are schools in RBS that are not Charedi or DL but "in between".<br /><br />It should be duly noted that many of the so called "park kids" are products of the sweeter, more eidel environment of the Charedi schools.Chaninoreply@blogger.com