tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post8593515967080462204..comments2024-03-28T09:43:50.919+02:00Comments on Life in Israel: Rav Shteinman's Bet Shemesh Speech Makes WavesRafi G.http://www.blogger.com/profile/00699851287106903971noreply@blogger.comBlogger26125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-39565769016009328742017-06-08T08:35:56.596+03:002017-06-08T08:35:56.596+03:00Why would that rate so high on the list? It's ...Why would that rate so high on the list? It's not a bad description of the world. While most aren't murderers there are way more than you think and most are thieves and without seichel.GPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15607644759658339566noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-13059482715818506082014-06-27T11:39:35.832+03:002014-06-27T11:39:35.832+03:00We are, indeed - all of us - murderers and thieves...We are, indeed - all of us - murderers and thieves...I live in the US, so I'll focus on US culture: the rich (the Koch brothers and their ilk) buy the politicians, who pass thieving laws that prosecute the poor and forgive the rich. We murder civilians by the hundreds (errant drone strikes come readily to mind) ..,things aren't better elsewhere, including Israel. The simpletons here (poor Rabbi Slifkin among them, I see) think that the old rabbi must be senile - 8 billion murderers! - but he was referring (as is evident from the entire context of his speech) to what happens to societies that lack an ethical base. Nor does he think that what constitutes "Torah society" today is actually a Torah guided society - His comments elsewhere are illuminating- but that's for another day.<br /><br />Zehava - the kid is right - the goyim are tricky - and when it pays for them to cheat, they will (and do). You may have noticed the myriad articles indicating that the fish you buy is quite often something else - the fraud is rampant. Good luck with your abiding trust in others to guarantee the purity of the food you eat ...Binyaminnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-35009329374874986622012-12-04T06:51:53.274+02:002012-12-04T06:51:53.274+02:00It is so sad you all Young Israel types. You are c...It is so sad you all Young Israel types. You are caught up in the modern ethical traps. As my friend said: the grandfather is Orthodox, the father is Modern Orthodox, the son is just modern. Your retention rate is low, i've seen your children massively leaving being even marginally Shomer Shabbos, i've seen this in one of the Boston suburbs, and then in the Boston/Brookline area. You don't produce major poskim, you loose your children. You can't get even a 1 per cent of what R' Shteinman is saying. You daven the Shabbos Shacharis in 1.5 hrs and then shmooze affer that for an hour. Judaism is a burden for you. Of course, there are problems in all sectors of Jewish society, but your problems are the most acute. You don't know how to learn, you don't know whom to learn with, you don't like learning. Hashem should have rachmonos on the whole Klal YisroelAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07019885669545532165noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-26359252503754368022012-05-23T05:31:45.978+03:002012-05-23T05:31:45.978+03:00To Anonymous May 22, 2012 2:33 AM
"I can'...To Anonymous May 22, 2012 2:33 AM<br /><br />"I can't believe people actually pay attention to this guy."<br /><br />These are the words of a madmanShuanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-27931924686927500512012-05-22T17:17:01.642+03:002012-05-22T17:17:01.642+03:00There are too many charedi apologists who are not ...There are too many charedi apologists who are not even charedim! <br /><br />The amount of hatred and vitroil coming out of charedi leaders is absurd. Send thier children to the army. Don't fund their school unless reasonable secular studies are implemented.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-68483691328104092002012-05-22T09:10:27.810+03:002012-05-22T09:10:27.810+03:00Again, חכמים היזהרו בדבריכם. If that's what he...Again, חכמים היזהרו בדבריכם. If that's what he meant, that's what he should have said. I have no problem with someone arguing that the Torah is דרכיה דרכי נועם and that this is why extremists among Jews still aren't killers, the way extremist Muslems are and extremist Christians were. But that's simply not what he said and many children (and adults with the intellectuality of children) heard him saying that the rest of the world is basically all רשעים and not important to G-dJJnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-29101747064626680662012-05-22T09:04:25.464+03:002012-05-22T09:04:25.464+03:00There are many ideas in Machshava that should be t...There are many ideas in Machshava that should be taught as Machshava, not as part of a science class. We can discuss what they mean on different levels. This is one of themAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-88654066718903875242012-05-22T02:33:00.488+03:002012-05-22T02:33:00.488+03:008 billion people? There are actually only a little...8 billion people? There are actually only a little over 7 billion. Who is the brainless one? I can't believe people actually pay attention to this guy. These are the words of a madmanAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-33740342536001233492012-05-22T01:03:36.704+03:002012-05-22T01:03:36.704+03:00I am a ben-Noach who tries to learn Torah and stay...I am a ben-Noach who tries to learn Torah and stay connected through shiurim online and various Jewish websites. These comments shocked me as they probably did most everyone. My first reaction was, Am Yisrael are supposed to be a light unto the nations and show the way for the rest of us, and this isn't going to help. As the saying goes you catch more flies with honey. However Rav Shteinman is a gadol and there must be a reason he said what he said, in the manner that he did. The other day I watched a short video on Torah Anytime by Rav Shlomo Singer about why there was thunder and lightning and such a fierce show of power at Matan Torah- it seems not to be along the lines of darchei noam. He said that in order for a person to really internalize Torah they must be shaken to the core. Maybe that was the Rav's strategy here. If so it's doing the trick. Heaven help us all and may we see the geulah b'mherahJDnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-22176796404780015792012-05-22T00:06:17.378+03:002012-05-22T00:06:17.378+03:00Anonymous - the Kuzari says it. It's mainstrea...Anonymous - the Kuzari says it. It's mainstream in that sense.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-45146682014819257022012-05-21T23:53:26.459+03:002012-05-21T23:53:26.459+03:00Agree with Josh S.
Also, I think the statement has...Agree with Josh S.<br />Also, I think the statement has more truth than you Americans want to give him credit for. If you dont look at individuals, but as societies and communities as a whole - you will see that the Islam / Mid East, Europeans, Africans, Russians, Chinese etc are very much societies that for the past X thousand of years have been killing and stealing. Massive world wars, genocide, holocaust etc. Not to mention theivery.<br /><br />True, America is a medinah shel chesed, but most other countries have not been so nice to the Jews, or other foreigners for that matter.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-90110921347891130982012-05-21T23:45:28.965+03:002012-05-21T23:45:28.965+03:00I had the following conversation with a 6 year old...I had the following conversation with a 6 year old on Shabbos (relative of an relative) I was eating yogurt and I offered him some, so he said he keeps Chalav Yisrael. So I said why, and he said you can't trust the goyim when they say that the milk is cow's milk. And I said, why not? It's the law. And he said but the goyim are tricky. And I was like, they are? And he said yes, they don't want the yidden to keep the Torah. I don't know where he got this from, but this is a from a family who's parents are professionals who is allowed to watch movies, etc. I just found this exchange mind boggling.zehavahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01709531722602136258noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-47244257356969988142012-05-21T22:04:35.375+03:002012-05-21T22:04:35.375+03:00The comment is not that bad. He doesn't necess...The comment is not that bad. He doesn't necessarily mean that they are all killers. What he means is that without the Torah, an objective morality, everyone is a bunch of "murderers and thieves, people without seichel." Torah is a compass, and without it people don't know which way is North. <br /><br />The whole argument is very utilitarian...<br /><br /> "Because he wants to be able to support himself for his entire life. How long does a person live? 70, 80, 90 years. 100 years! Who already lives 100 years, maybe one or two or three people. Who lives so long? And that is it. and for that one has to give so many years in order to live, and without that it is impossible. If so, how much one must do for the everlasting (the torah)!"<br /><br />Do what will give yourself the most benefit, if you believe in the world to come and that the Torah is the path to that world, then why waste time doing other things.Josh Shttp://collectivisticindividualism.blogspot.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-40451552554339784392012-05-21T18:14:14.344+03:002012-05-21T18:14:14.344+03:00Anonymous, what do you expect? Chardal educational...Anonymous, what do you expect? Chardal educational institutions are just like Chareidi ones, but celebrate Yom Ha'atzmaut...A humannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-71810191289303747472012-05-21T17:40:25.805+03:002012-05-21T17:40:25.805+03:00Thanks for the translation Rafi, but the context d...Thanks for the translation Rafi, but the context does absolutely nothing to do justice to that horrifying quote.<br /><br />If I weren't already "frum" and I read something like that I'd run for the hills and never look back!Michael Lipkinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11501487897038161582noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-29020294513860042602012-05-21T17:23:21.216+03:002012-05-21T17:23:21.216+03:00I'm tired of so-called "gedolim" pro...I'm tired of so-called "gedolim" promoting ignorance and bigotry. Why do such people deserve our respect? Just because they have an astounding command of Talmud?zachnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-77196594813991044722012-05-21T17:00:16.499+03:002012-05-21T17:00:16.499+03:00I will admit that even after reading it I have no ...I will admit that even after reading it I have no idea what he said.Zach Kessinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04276155117746098546noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-4949439250830789852012-05-21T16:25:31.205+03:002012-05-21T16:25:31.205+03:00I pointed out some other problems at http://www.ra...I pointed out some other problems at <a href="http://www.rationalistjudaism.com/2012/05/rav-shteinmans-speech.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.rationalistjudaism.com/2012/05/rav-shteinmans-speech.html</a>Rabbi Dr. Natan Slifkinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07903561261083292772noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-39804896020617789952012-05-21T15:57:23.669+03:002012-05-21T15:57:23.669+03:00This is not only a Charedi issue. It's a Chard...This is not only a Charedi issue. It's a Chardal problem too - At least one of my children learned in science class at TT Moriah that there are several levels of life on Earth - inanimate, animals, humans, Jews - in science class, out of a textbook!!!!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-74133682035832864482012-05-21T15:47:13.725+03:002012-05-21T15:47:13.725+03:00Ribbono Shel Olam - You can try to put that into c...Ribbono Shel Olam - You can try to put that into context all you want but if חכמים היזהרו בדבריכם wasn't meant as a warning against saying things like that, I have no idea what it was meant for. This will be added to a long line of very unfortunate (to say the least) quotes that could be compiled from speeches by gedolim during my adulthood. And this is why so many people have a hard time equating Torah knowledge and even genuine tzidkus on the one hand with leadership abilities and sane analytical thinking on the other.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-76520109402152901072012-05-21T15:43:27.236+03:002012-05-21T15:43:27.236+03:00It was typed up by an organization and passed arou...It was typed up by an organization and passed around in shuls on Shabbos. I have a copy.Rafi G.https://www.blogger.com/profile/00699851287106903971noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-64462724835484143982012-05-21T15:42:44.050+03:002012-05-21T15:42:44.050+03:00that reminds me of a comment I saw in my kids pape...that reminds me of a comment I saw in my kids paper from gan recently. It was talking about the holiness of our speech (based on something in the parsha, though I don't remember what right now) and it said the goyim don't have a machson in their speech and they lie and talk nivul peh and curse, but us Yehudim have machsom and we only talk b'kedusha.Dovid Yosefnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-41938811606476856612012-05-21T15:41:49.303+03:002012-05-21T15:41:49.303+03:00Where is the original Hebrew transcript?Where is the original Hebrew transcript?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-77360309815117446812012-05-21T15:41:46.101+03:002012-05-21T15:41:46.101+03:00"And today they say there are 8 billion peopl..."And today they say there are 8 billion people in the world. And what are they all? murderers and thieves, people without seichel .. "<br /><br />This is one of the most despicable things I've ever read.A member of humanitynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-81616684110494905772012-05-21T15:39:54.446+03:002012-05-21T15:39:54.446+03:00that is exactly the part the media jumped on!that is exactly the part the media jumped on!Rafi G.https://www.blogger.com/profile/00699851287106903971noreply@blogger.com