tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post861196260319785303..comments2024-03-28T09:43:50.919+02:00Comments on Life in Israel: Unequal Distribution At The KotelRafi G.http://www.blogger.com/profile/00699851287106903971noreply@blogger.comBlogger14125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-8348364130127209612012-05-24T17:07:40.728+03:002012-05-24T17:07:40.728+03:00that is true of most "religious laws". R...that is true of most "religious laws". Right now about 98% of jews commemorate YK, mostly by fasting. If there was a law requiring fasting on YK, that number would drop considerably.<br /><br />same with circumcision and with pesach seder.Rafi G.https://www.blogger.com/profile/00699851287106903971noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-55116438643705197702012-05-24T17:04:27.020+03:002012-05-24T17:04:27.020+03:00Bottom line is that "your not sure" eith...Bottom line is that "your not sure" either way because we can't know what's in a person's heart. But the fact is that they are coming to pray at the Kotel.<br /><br />"Shouldn't these "Talit women" be more "Frum" about how they upset their fellow Jew and less concerned about what they themselves wear?" <br /><br />Halevi everyone should feel this way. But this issue is one of behavior. Whether or not it bothers the traditional women, they are not the ones throwing chairs and yelling. Regardless, the idea that there's a law on the books about this is ridiculous and only encourages extremist behavior. The law must be eradicated.Michael Lipkinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11501487897038161582noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-15222642581420756492012-05-24T16:09:40.922+03:002012-05-24T16:09:40.922+03:00First of all I am no not sure that the Women who c...First of all I am no not sure that the Women who come to the Kotel and wear a talit are doing it because they 'care' about the Kotel but rather they may well be doing it to make a feminist statement.<br /><br />My 2nd point which I also made above is that you shouldn't think that the people objecting to women wearing a talit are just a bunch of extreme Charedi men. Many traditional women who come to the kotel in trousers (that's pants for you Yankies)and wrap the material round there legs come to the kotel to be in a traditional atmosphere and they don't wish this atmosphere upset by these women changing tradition. Shouldn't these "Talit women" be more "Frum" about how they upset their fellow Jew and less concerned about what they themselves wear?Shimon Anoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-19908366314586917532012-05-24T11:39:41.775+03:002012-05-24T11:39:41.775+03:00For many Jewish women this already is a norm. It&#...For many Jewish women this already is a norm. It's really so sad, millions of Jews couldn't give a you-know-what about the Kotel yet it's beyond some to show a little tolerance for those that do care but in a different way.<br /><br />How about, since these people consider the Kotel plaza to be such a holy place and since this ongoing exile was essentially caused by Sina, that the denizens of that holy place (who SHOULD know better) be more "Frum" about how they treat their fellow Jew and less concerned about what they wear?Michael Lipkinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11501487897038161582noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-47731657896503945752012-05-24T10:54:38.419+03:002012-05-24T10:54:38.419+03:00Menachem, If you want to make change you don't...Menachem, If you want to make change you don't need to start it at the Kotel. If women wearing talits became a normal practice then by all means they can do it at the kotel too BUT at the moment most women don't do it and if you ask me have no desire to do it either.Shimon Anoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-22035248107222565502012-05-24T07:12:56.624+03:002012-05-24T07:12:56.624+03:00Women have "traditionally" not learned C...Women have "traditionally" not learned Chumash, Tanach, Gemorah. Women have "traditionally" not left the house except when absolutely necessary. Women have "traditionally" not received degrees in higher education or become professionals. <br /><br />Yes, by all means, let's base our society on the least common denominator of backward thinking.<br /><br />Move on.Michael Lipkinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11501487897038161582noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-79187942212125294552012-05-23T23:39:59.817+03:002012-05-23T23:39:59.817+03:00Woman traditionally have not worn talits. There ar...Woman traditionally have not worn talits. There are many people who will be upset by seeing this done at the kotel. I am not speaking about a few extremist men but rather many people on the Women's side including traditional sefardi woman will object to seeing this. I see no reason why to change the status quo. <br /><br />The truth is I think Dov has blown it. The Am Shalem party was set up to be the moderate voice of Charedim. But from what I can see the party hasn't made any impact amongst Modern Charedim and campaigning for Women's rights to wear a talit at the kotel will make sure that while Alisa Coleman may vote for Am Shalem no Charedi however 'modern' will vote for them.Shimon Anoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-80818053879169639162012-05-23T23:35:08.879+03:002012-05-23T23:35:08.879+03:00Just looked at some old pictures. I think the Mec...Just looked at some old pictures. I think the Mechitza was pretty much in the same place. It's the "temporary bridge" that is stealing a lot of space. (Doesn't mean it shouldn't have been moved as soon as that bridge went up.) Also the mechitza was much lower. Women are looking over it without standing on anything!<br /><br />I agree with Dov that this is all related. It's all part of the same "Chareidization" that's going on at the Kotel, in Bet Shemesh, and the country in general. It's a multi-headed beast that must be continually fought.<br /><br />As aside, did you know that there is actually a law on the books that a woman cannot wear a Talis "like a man" at the Kotel? This means that it's ok to wear one like a scarf, as the conservative often do, but not folded over the shoulders as orthodox usually do. I'm sorry, that is just bizarre. These idiots should just mind their own damn business. If they were truly "pious" they'd be busy praying to God and not looking over the mechitza at what the women are wearing.Michael Lipkinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11501487897038161582noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-75885788576498972782012-05-23T21:44:53.089+03:002012-05-23T21:44:53.089+03:0020 years ago, the women's section was much lar...20 years ago, the women's section was much larger than it is today.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-77824564986543032272012-05-23T20:27:08.375+03:002012-05-23T20:27:08.375+03:00The only problem I can see with a mobile mechitza ...The only problem I can see with a mobile mechitza is that we may start to see "men's only" events where the entire wall is sequestered for men's use for this or that occasion. Maybe they could set up the mechitza such that it physically cannot be moved within the current 20% position.<br /><br />By the way, none of this solves the egalitarian issue - i.e., that there is no place for men and women to daven together. The Kotel is a national heritage for all Klal Yisrael - not the "property" of frum Jews. We can't just make the Kotel "for us" without regard to other groups' needs. That's going to have to change eventually - as are other areas of Orthodox monopoly.David Meirnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-72857456112426852672012-05-23T19:15:37.597+03:002012-05-23T19:15:37.597+03:00yes, he was.yes, he was.Rafi G.https://www.blogger.com/profile/00699851287106903971noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-77569913941171716312012-05-23T19:07:53.199+03:002012-05-23T19:07:53.199+03:00"No, not everything needs to be turned into a..."No, not everything needs to be turned into a big fight of survival and existence."<br /><br />But unfortunately it has to be a fight for votes...!! On that note not to look like a complete jerk, was this Rabbi Lipman so vocal BEFORE beit shemesh incident and the forming of the new party?DBhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16806701543173511556noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-82414300763295692262012-05-23T16:48:49.852+03:002012-05-23T16:48:49.852+03:00At least part of the issue is due to the colapse s...At least part of the issue is due to the colapse several years ago of the ramp to the Har HaBayit. The replacement ramp was built over, and took space from, the women's section only. Also, there used to be a room under the ramp that women could use, that has also been off-limits (if it still exists) since the colapse.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-66077398902479949312012-05-23T16:39:50.251+03:002012-05-23T16:39:50.251+03:00i'm just going to point out quickly that the d...i'm just going to point out quickly that the distribution you see there in that picture is very rare usually both sides are almost empty, and also women claimed spots inside the tunnels as well(including the closest spot to where the ark used to sit)<br />most of the time the space for the men may not be needed but come any kind of even and all of a sudden it's 10 to 1 men crowding everyone. the space for men is definitely neededAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com