tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post8704716090312079740..comments2024-03-28T21:53:53.990+02:00Comments on Life in Israel: Two lessons learned while riding a mehadrin busRafi G.http://www.blogger.com/profile/00699851287106903971noreply@blogger.comBlogger25125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-4707892329786647702010-02-04T14:31:26.195+02:002010-02-04T14:31:26.195+02:00Rafi,
If the bus were very crowded it's possi...Rafi,<br /><br />If the bus were very crowded it's possible the woman was standing in an area where there were only men.Michael Lipkinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11501487897038161582noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-1886992372329606162010-02-04T14:08:46.801+02:002010-02-04T14:08:46.801+02:00wanna- there is still the point that the men dont ...wanna- there is still the point that the men dont get up for needy women because the women shouldnt be sitting in the front section....<br /><br />(though I still dont understand why a non-pregnant woman cant get up for pregnant women...Rafi G.https://www.blogger.com/profile/00699851287106903971noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-39879393592884233582010-02-04T14:03:14.503+02:002010-02-04T14:03:14.503+02:00While I agree that was not a nice experience and i...While I agree that was not a nice experience and inconsiderate that no one gave her a seat, I don't think it's fair to say that happened BECAUSE it was a Mehadrin bus. It could have happened on any bus. Don't draw the wrong cause and effect.Wanna Saabhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11564440024185263043noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-67917871130836831182010-02-04T13:31:45.760+02:002010-02-04T13:31:45.760+02:00why didnt any other women get up for her? why do o...why didnt any other women get up for her? why do only men have to get up? unless all the other women were also pregnant...Rafi G.https://www.blogger.com/profile/00699851287106903971noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-14838782932920468182010-02-04T13:20:15.192+02:002010-02-04T13:20:15.192+02:00I used to take MeHadrin buses quite often, and one...I used to take MeHadrin buses quite often, and one time stands out. My wife was in a later stage of pregnancy, with a small child to boot, and nobody would allow her to sit down on a 1 1/2 hour bus ride. I spoke aloud my disgust in Hebrew for all to hear, but it didn't make an impression. After about 10 minutes, an American married guy, himself travelling with 5-6 kids, agreed to let her sit.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-87840563007557725492010-02-04T11:30:32.546+02:002010-02-04T11:30:32.546+02:00But let me ask, does your same analysis apply to t...<i>But let me ask, does your same analysis apply to the seamy islamists?</i><br /><br />I didn't ask about Islamists. However, it seems to me, just from a little observation, that Islamic men are less restricted than Chareidi men. There's certainly a strong element of control of women in Islalmic societies. In some ways worse than chareidi societies. Honestly I don't enough about Islaem to answer your question. I will say that, in general, fundamentalist religious behavior is not healthy for any of us.Michael Lipkinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11501487897038161582noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-10907788185115451122010-02-04T11:13:16.143+02:002010-02-04T11:13:16.143+02:00Wait a sec everyone. I think the point about not ...Wait a sec everyone. I think the point about not paying has stolen the center stage from this discussion. It can't be that the whole reason why the mehadrin line was invented was so people can ride for free. The earlier comments were saying they created it so they have something they feel they can control. Stealing rides may be a result that comes as well, but not the reason for its creation. BTW, asking you to punch for them is not stealing. You don't have to punch for them if you don't want to. <br /><br />I agree with the "control" aspect. You can tell it's not about emesdik frumkeit about tzniyus because women who violate this by sitting in front are then violated by the men trying to uphold the rules of tzniyus. A man says he doesn't want to look at a woman on the bus, but is willing to physically attack her, throw her down to the floor, pull her snood off, etc. is obviously not "frum," he's a control freak. And when a woman doesn't follow his orders he freaks.Wanna Saabhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11564440024185263043noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-3958468549837664602010-02-04T10:33:21.625+02:002010-02-04T10:33:21.625+02:00Rafi,
I haven't been on a 417 on a regular ba...Rafi,<br /><br />I haven't been on a 417 on a regular basis for a few years now but when I was it was a daily occurance.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-29324500958882704792010-02-04T09:14:18.649+02:002010-02-04T09:14:18.649+02:00Agreed that most people don't care.
But every...Agreed that most people don't care.<br /><br />But everyone like to pick a fight.<br /><br />I could imagine they're just trying to maintain the "status quo". :)Yosef Greenberghttp://blog.yachdus.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-67253453684673645022010-02-04T09:05:13.653+02:002010-02-04T09:05:13.653+02:00I have seen that happen on many bus lines, but not...I have seen that happen on many bus lines, but not at the amounts you are suggesting. Wow! I have only used the 417 a few times and only saw that happen once out of those few times (could be I didnt notice the other times as maybe they got their ride before they needed to ask me for the punch)Rafi G.https://www.blogger.com/profile/00699851287106903971noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-45036277276359866192010-02-04T09:00:53.455+02:002010-02-04T09:00:53.455+02:00As omeone who rode the 417 to J-m for a long time ...As omeone who rode the 417 to J-m for a long time I would like to chime in about those trying to "cop a ride".<br /><br />In most cases it wasn't from the driver/Egged. It was from fellow passengers.<br /><br />I can remember only a few times that people didn't come and ask me for a "punch" on my ticket.<br /><br />If they have no money or intention to pay theu shouldn't be riding the bus.Disgustednoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-65836220955632366552010-02-04T08:57:27.342+02:002010-02-04T08:57:27.342+02:00ok, "all" was an exaggeration. Not every...ok, "all" was an exaggeration. Not everybody didn't pay. But this woman told me it was a very large percentage of the men on the bus who had to be pressured by the driver to actually pay.<br /><br />And as I made in an earlier point, most people don't care about mehadrin, and just take the mehadrin line because it is convenient - either the only line that goes closest to where they need, the timing, etc. <br />The people who care about it are the ones who are taking advantage of it. It is easier to skip paying when you are getting on in the back, or your wife is, rather than when everyone has to get on in the front and pass the driver.Rafi G.https://www.blogger.com/profile/00699851287106903971noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-75655661662298152712010-02-04T08:03:17.693+02:002010-02-04T08:03:17.693+02:00I disagree with some of the tone/language used her...I disagree with some of the tone/language used here.<br /><br />"mehadrin buses are not about frumkeit. they are about control."<br /><br />Only? Are you sure?<br /><br />"under the guise of frumkeit, they are all just trying to cop free rides"<br /><br />I mean, please. Thats all they're trying to do with the mehadrin line? Skip paying? (You had to use the word "all"? Wouldn't "some" be good enough?)Yosef Greenberghttp://blog.yachdus.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-65145692338801284642010-02-04T03:52:06.722+02:002010-02-04T03:52:06.722+02:00Menachem Lipkin, I agree with you. I also think th...Menachem Lipkin, I agree with you. I also think the Haredi men are being aggressive about women's tsnius, because they cannot do anything about the lax tsnius in the general public. It bothers them, and so they try to "control" their immediate environment, i.e. a bus, their neighborhood streets, etc.<br /><br />But let me ask, does your same analysis apply to the seamy islamists?Neshamahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06326762185596512130noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-15556301599884480812010-02-03T21:09:07.658+02:002010-02-03T21:09:07.658+02:00There's some twisted haskafa out there that th...There's some twisted haskafa out there that the only rules to follow are halacha. Which means even standard rules about payment aren't really real.<br /><br />It isn't a conscious hashkafa just a general disregard of non-halacha rules because it's goyish, medinish, whatever.<br /><br />Meanwhile my 10 year old looked over my shoulder and saw I'm reading some story about a Mehadrin bus. She says she read in Chadash (we hide it but she raids the mailboxes) about some bus that toppled over and the Gedolim said no one was hurt because they were keeping tznius.<br /><br />I told her if it had been a chiloni bus with no one hurt the story would have read it toppled over because they weren't. She said she thinks stories like that are weird.Shiranoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-7567164523165391732010-02-03T19:37:48.681+02:002010-02-03T19:37:48.681+02:00I've been complaining about the lack of paying...I've been complaining about the lack of paying for ages. Just spend a few minutes at the bus stop at tsomet Shuafat on the main highway from Ramot to center of town. Or better yet - position yourself towards the back of a bus travelling through Malchei Yisrael. How can frum yidden believe that what they are doing is anything other than chillul H'Shalomnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-62787128775612315932010-02-03T19:19:19.836+02:002010-02-03T19:19:19.836+02:00the only people who care about mehadrin buses are ...the only people who care about mehadrin buses are the ones who are about control. the mehadrin buses are the way those people use their control. The bus is a medium by which they control the peopleRafi G.https://www.blogger.com/profile/00699851287106903971noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-64466372770124493902010-02-03T19:05:24.183+02:002010-02-03T19:05:24.183+02:00Lesson #1 - mehadrin buses are not about frumkeit....<i>Lesson #1 - mehadrin buses are not about frumkeit. they are about control.</i><br /><br />No, some <i>people</i> are about control.Hamasighttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13878878989698459250noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-58612969383705049442010-02-03T17:47:59.976+02:002010-02-03T17:47:59.976+02:00You can't even say yatzah scharo b'hefsedo...You can't even say yatzah scharo b'hefsedo. There is no schar. Never heard the psychological aspects as commented above. Interesting.Wanna Saabhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11564440024185263043noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-70368813079302402242010-02-03T16:55:57.214+02:002010-02-03T16:55:57.214+02:00Years ago I was riding a bus in Toronto and saw th...Years ago I was riding a bus in Toronto and saw this yeshiva bochur get on. The driver asked for a ticket and the kid shrugged. He didn't have so the driver told him he'd have to get off at the next stop.<br />Naively, I walked forward and handed an extra ticket from my pocket to the driver so the kid would be covered. A few minutes later the kid found me and told me that he only wanted to take the bus for the 1 stop because it was raining so there was no need for me to pay.<br />I was stunned (like I said, naive) and finally asked: They teach you that theft is muttar in your yeshivah?<br />The kid shrugged and got off the bus at that point.Garnel Ironheartnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-66239770205684208652010-02-03T16:45:00.130+02:002010-02-03T16:45:00.130+02:00I've talked to a few psychologists. It's ...I've talked to a few psychologists. It's about control, but a very specific type: repressed sexual aggression. <br /><br />It's very similar to the way boys interact with girls on the playground when they don't yet know how to deal with their sexual feelings.<br /><br />It's bizarre that it should manifest in adult, sometimes married, men. It may be no more prevalent in Chareidi society, but Chareidi men have virtually no other outlets aside from harassing women under the guise of tznious.<br /><br />It's very unfortunate that courts are enabling this behavior.Michael Lipkinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11501487897038161582noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-36392894368278286312010-02-03T16:40:33.899+02:002010-02-03T16:40:33.899+02:00Most of the chumros today are about control and no...Most of the chumros today are about control and not fumkeit.<br /><br />Politics in kashrus, what school won't take my childen, which organization is more charedi it's all nonsense.<br /><br />The satan is laughing his (honed) head off at us while l'havdil the Shchina is cying (kaviyachol).Enough alreadynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-2850089292381804572010-02-03T16:11:06.867+02:002010-02-03T16:11:06.867+02:00the court has not upheld the right. What happened ...the court has not upheld the right. What happened the other day is the Transportation Ministry stated the opinion of the government (his ministry with tacit agreement from the coalition).<br /><br />The court will take that opinion into consideration when it makes its decision next month (supposedly)Rafi G.https://www.blogger.com/profile/00699851287106903971noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-37278008433564725962010-02-03T16:10:26.092+02:002010-02-03T16:10:26.092+02:00According the Transportation Minister that is exac...According the Transportation Minister that is exactly how it is supposed to work. <br /><br />The first time we were on the 497, we didn't know anything practical about the mehadrin lines. We got on at one of the first stops and sat together near the front. The driver said he didn't care but we would likely be hassled if my wife didn't move. <br /><br />Another time the 497 we were taking broke down and was replaced with a smaller bus. Some spouses had decided to sit togther leaving the only empty seat on the bus (with me standing) between two women in the back. They refused to move until a couple of passengers starting calling them out for their lack of consideration for others. <br /><br />If mehadrin lines were about frumkeit they would be demanding them in Kiryat Sefer.ehwhyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06436676108396672275noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20257999.post-92107201770555811122010-02-03T16:07:45.091+02:002010-02-03T16:07:45.091+02:00Unfortunately none of this is new and yet the secu...Unfortunately none of this is new and yet the secular humanist activist rule-of-law-above-all-else court has upheld the right to continue this hillul Hashem.Rafi (S)https://www.blogger.com/profile/18103892755392538611noreply@blogger.com