A bit racist of one of the people in the video to think that if teh city is chareidi, it will be dirty, dont you think?
Dont Kiryat Sefer and Beitar gain national recognition for how they look? Ive been to old bet shemesh, not really a chareidi stronghold, and its more dumpy than RBS B
technically it is true, as charedi communities have higher numbers of kids who dirty the place up. But that just means the irya has to work harder to keep it clean - in places like Beitar (I dont know about Kiryat Sefer) they do. In Bet Shemesh they dont and just blame the people.
There was an article in one of the papers last week - I think Chadash but I am not sure - about how AButbol and a few BS irya people in charge of Shef"A went for a tour of Beitar to see how they deal with it so successfully, on a smaller per capita budget than BS.
Aside from the actual amount they clean, the mayor and a former mayor stressed hwo they taught the people to be more careful about not littering , with fines if someone was caught, if a kid was seen littering by an official he would take him home with the garbage, if they found a garbage bag outside of the garbage can, the mayor (himself even! or one of the city workers) woudl sort through it until he found paperwork in the bag indicating which house it came from and then he would take the bag and leave it by their door, etc.
he said it was hard, but he re-educated the residents to living clean.
I can't tell you how often I see neighbors of mine sending bags of garbage down to the trash cans with little kids who cant reach - so they throw it in and sometimes miss, or it is too heavy so they leave it on the ground, etc. and then the cats get to it and spread it around, etc.
But aside form the people, the city has to work harder to keep it clean. That is what we pay arnona for, isnt it?
Anonymous said... A bit racist of one of the people in the video to think that if teh city is chareidi, it will be dirty, dont you think? -----------------------------------
I'm definitely glad they told us that RBS Gimmel will be about 1/3 Chiloni, 1/3 Dati Leumi, and 1/3 Charedi.
Now I know to not even consider living there because that's pretty much what they said about RBS Alef (and maybe Bet?). My wife and I looked at RBS, well some tashtit and plans, etc in 1997 and were told that it was going to be a mixed community (Chiloni/Dati Leumi/Charedi). We were a little skeptical at the time, and luckily didn't buy there. Other friedns of ours weren't so lucky and bought in RBS only to be chased out by hooligans a few years later. Another friend bough in RBS and is "lucky" that he chose the only street (I think one section of Nachal Dolev?) that remained at least a little dati leumi.
Hey anon #6 - please check lashon hara and bizui talmidei chachomim at the door, and dont post it to the blog. No one asked you your opinion on how "bad" certain rabbonim are.
Also, please dont say that all chareidim are molesters and cover ups- thats patently absurd.
And to Mark - I dont see why poverty should matter in terms of cleanliness. And besides, i would bet that kiryat sefer and beitar are just as poor per capita as old bet shemesh. Also, I would think that old poor people would tend to be a bit cleaner that poor people with kids.
Rafi, while I agree with you that the Iriyah needs to step up and do more to keep the neighborhood clean, I want to point out that it is a responsibility of parents to teach kids not to litter and to respect the environment. You may see kids attempting to throw away garbage that their parents sent them to throw away (arguably knowing that they are too young for the task), but I see kids AND adults littering all. the. time. Today, in fact, I saw a woman leave an empty coffee cup on a bench, approximately 3 meters from a garbage can, as she walked through the mercaz. I would have asked her to throw it away if I could have reached her without making a scene. How are kids to learn right from wrong when their parents are the ones setting a bad example?
Rafi G. you said it. The way to keep the city clean is to educte people to keep it clean and not litter! It isn't only kids it's adults. It isn't only chareidim, but they have their fair share of it. It is naive to think that it could be split into thirds. Anyway the whole idea is foreign to me, coming from the US with equal opportunity housing. I can't really imagine why a chiloni would choose to leave there. It will most probably be mixed charedi dati leumi like the adjacent RBS A, regardless of city planning.
I was reading Voices magazine the other day, about how there is still a massive housing shortage for those who were evicted from their homes in the hitnatkut tragedy. The spokesperson said that in many cases not only had there been a failure to start building on the intended plots, but that in many places even the infrastructure hadn't been started yet. I wonder what it would take to bring some of these families to RBS gimmel, where they can be part of an existing community, where the infrastructure is ready and where they would be welcomed by the local residents...?
A bit racist of one of the people in the video to think that if teh city is chareidi, it will be dirty, dont you think?
ReplyDeleteDont Kiryat Sefer and Beitar gain national recognition for how they look? Ive been to old bet shemesh, not really a chareidi stronghold, and its more dumpy than RBS B
technically it is true, as charedi communities have higher numbers of kids who dirty the place up. But that just means the irya has to work harder to keep it clean - in places like Beitar (I dont know about Kiryat Sefer) they do. In Bet Shemesh they dont and just blame the people.
ReplyDeleteThere was an article in one of the papers last week - I think Chadash but I am not sure - about how AButbol and a few BS irya people in charge of Shef"A went for a tour of Beitar to see how they deal with it so successfully, on a smaller per capita budget than BS.
Aside from the actual amount they clean, the mayor and a former mayor stressed hwo they taught the people to be more careful about not littering , with fines if someone was caught, if a kid was seen littering by an official he would take him home with the garbage, if they found a garbage bag outside of the garbage can, the mayor (himself even! or one of the city workers) woudl sort through it until he found paperwork in the bag indicating which house it came from and then he would take the bag and leave it by their door, etc.
he said it was hard, but he re-educated the residents to living clean.
I can't tell you how often I see neighbors of mine sending bags of garbage down to the trash cans with little kids who cant reach - so they throw it in and sometimes miss, or it is too heavy so they leave it on the ground, etc. and then the cats get to it and spread it around, etc.
But aside form the people, the city has to work harder to keep it clean. That is what we pay arnona for, isnt it?
Anonymous said...
ReplyDeleteA bit racist of one of the people in the video to think that if teh city is chareidi, it will be dirty, dont you think?
-----------------------------------
Ein Machlokes B'metziyus.
I'm definitely glad they told us that RBS Gimmel will be about 1/3 Chiloni, 1/3 Dati Leumi, and 1/3 Charedi.
ReplyDeleteNow I know to not even consider living there because that's pretty much what they said about RBS Alef (and maybe Bet?). My wife and I looked at RBS, well some tashtit and plans, etc in 1997 and were told that it was going to be a mixed community (Chiloni/Dati Leumi/Charedi). We were a little skeptical at the time, and luckily didn't buy there. Other friedns of ours weren't so lucky and bought in RBS only to be chased out by hooligans a few years later. Another friend bough in RBS and is "lucky" that he chose the only street (I think one section of Nachal Dolev?) that remained at least a little dati leumi.
Mark
Ive been to old bet shemesh, not really a chareidi stronghold, and its more dumpy than RBS B
ReplyDeleteNot quite a fair comparison as one area is 50 years old (with substantial poverty) and the other is only 10 years old!
Mark
This is what is planned for Gimmel:
ReplyDelete1. A Third for Dati Leumi
2. A Third for Chiloni/Mesorati
3. A Third for sexual abusers and their protecting RabbiKornfelsteinovitch
Hey anon #6 - please check lashon hara and bizui talmidei chachomim at the door, and dont post it to the blog. No one asked you your opinion on how "bad" certain rabbonim are.
ReplyDeleteAlso, please dont say that all chareidim are molesters and cover ups- thats patently absurd.
And to Mark - I dont see why poverty should matter in terms of cleanliness. And besides, i would bet that kiryat sefer and beitar are just as poor per capita as old bet shemesh.
Also, I would think that old poor people would tend to be a bit cleaner that poor people with kids.
Rafi, while I agree with you that the Iriyah needs to step up and do more to keep the neighborhood clean, I want to point out that it is a responsibility of parents to teach kids not to litter and to respect the environment. You may see kids attempting to throw away garbage that their parents sent them to throw away (arguably knowing that they are too young for the task), but I see kids AND adults littering all. the. time. Today, in fact, I saw a woman leave an empty coffee cup on a bench, approximately 3 meters from a garbage can, as she walked through the mercaz. I would have asked her to throw it away if I could have reached her without making a scene. How are kids to learn right from wrong when their parents are the ones setting a bad example?
ReplyDeleteRafi G. you said it. The way to keep the city clean is to educte people to keep it clean and not litter!
ReplyDeleteIt isn't only kids it's adults.
It isn't only chareidim, but they have their fair share of it.
It is naive to think that it could be split into thirds. Anyway the whole idea is foreign to me, coming from the US with equal opportunity housing. I can't really imagine why a chiloni would choose to leave there.
It will most probably be mixed charedi dati leumi like the adjacent RBS A, regardless of city planning.
I was reading Voices magazine the other day, about how there is still a massive housing shortage for those who were evicted from their homes in the hitnatkut tragedy. The spokesperson said that in many cases not only had there been a failure to start building on the intended plots, but that in many places even the infrastructure hadn't been started yet. I wonder what it would take to bring some of these families to RBS gimmel, where they can be part of an existing community, where the infrastructure is ready and where they would be welcomed by the local residents...?
ReplyDeleterw,
ReplyDeleteTHAT is a fabulous idea. If only it were realistic.
rw - that is a great idea and solution for them.
ReplyDelete