I agree with daf. If they tried either of those 2 dances here in chicago, someone would probably be shot on the spot and HATAV would certainley stop playing immediatley!
OTOH, it's nice to see both dances and certainley shows a lot of respect to the Kallah (even though I am sure she is personally embarrassed and feels awkward)
I always think that chassidim stand a far better chance than the rest of us at being normal. I think it was Rav Aryeh Levin who would go to the other side of the wedding as a guest and wish the mothers mazal tov - now we think the mechitza is a halachic boundary.
And they have it right dancing for the kallah - after all the mitzvah is to make the kallah happy. Doesn't do much good to keep her on the other side the entire time and just dance with the boys - she gets a tired and sweaty chosson at the end....
By the misnagdim if one Rav says it's ok everyone wonders if the other three biggies do also, or quotes a kupah ad that implies to the contrary etc. If the Chassidic Rebbe says it's fine, the chassidim see it as a mitzvah to follow their Rav.
At this point a gramen is sung in yiddish and the Rov/ Rebbe and all the male members of the family get to dance with the Kallah.
Note: The Rebbe/ Rov and all males other than the father of the Kallah and the Chosson use a gartel
The person gramening exalts the person called to dance by pointing out his yichus/ financial prowess/ learning capability/ chesed/ kahal work etc
After each person dances individually (a couple min or so, depending) with the Kallah in a sombre manner - the Chosson and others jump in and dance before the Kallah.
Having done it myself (my wife family are Hungarian)- it is rather special for the girl, particularly dancing with her father and Zeides
However, there are a few things that are very hard to explain. The Mechitza which needs to be bullet proof is all of a sudden gone and the men and women sit across the hall from each other in direct eye contact.
The Gramaning too is a little far fetched as the guy is obviously paid handsomely and is willing to embelish the truth regarding the individuals involved. Sometimes, if you listen carefully enough, you find out that somehow mysteriously you are a ben achar ben of some famous identity. This person is usually known but not unbelievable. E.g. They won't say your an eihr einikel of Noam Elimelech but rather of somone like the Mishkolts Rebbe (someone who never really existed, but believalbe). If you pay lots of money, all bets are off. You could end up being ben achar ben from the Gra/Baal Shem Tov/ Chasam Sofer and RSRH all the same time
Growing up in Williamsburg, I attended a number of chassidish weddings. What Anon describes is what I remember, except for I remember the choosin using a gartel to dance with his kallah as well.
Beautifully put, Baila. Foreign to me, kind of like I was an anthropologist observing, but moving and a nice glimpse into a way of life. Kind of like the first time I saw a henna ceremony with all of the changes in costume, the different music and interesting gender-based roles for that event.
in it's own way I thin this is really sweet. Not my thing, but very sweet none the less.
ReplyDeleteif I'd have tried that at my wedding I probably wouldve been put in cherem
ReplyDeleteIs there a prescribed amount of time where (I assume it was he) the chattan dances with the kallah? Does the man in white (the rebbi?) always come in?
ReplyDeleteThe chattan seemed unaware of the next move (or is that part of the minhag as well?
KT
Joel Rich
sure, exactly 1 minute- that is the nice thing about the digital counter at the bottom ;)
ReplyDeleteI agree with daf. If they tried either of those 2 dances here in chicago, someone would probably be shot on the spot and HATAV would certainley stop playing immediatley!
ReplyDeleteOTOH, it's nice to see both dances and certainley shows a lot of respect to the Kallah (even though I am sure she is personally embarrassed and feels awkward)
I'm more shocked by all the women attending her and that flimsy mechitzah.
ReplyDeleteI always think that chassidim stand a far better chance than the rest of us at being normal. I think it was Rav Aryeh Levin who would go to the other side of the wedding as a guest and wish the mothers mazal tov - now we think the mechitza is a halachic boundary.
ReplyDeleteAnd they have it right dancing for the kallah - after all the mitzvah is to make the kallah happy. Doesn't do much good to keep her on the other side the entire time and just dance with the boys - she gets a tired and sweaty chosson at the end....
By the misnagdim if one Rav says it's ok everyone wonders if the other three biggies do also, or quotes a kupah ad that implies to the contrary etc. If the Chassidic Rebbe says it's fine, the chassidim see it as a mitzvah to follow their Rav.
Leah - at every simcha I go to, if I know the wife/mother, I always cross the mechitza and go to say mazel tov
ReplyDeleteSimply put- this is known as a 'Mitzvah Tantz'
ReplyDeleteAt this point a gramen is sung in yiddish and the Rov/ Rebbe and all the male members of the family get to dance with the Kallah.
Note: The Rebbe/ Rov and all males other than the father of the Kallah and the Chosson use a gartel
The person gramening exalts the person called to dance by pointing out his yichus/ financial prowess/ learning capability/ chesed/ kahal work etc
After each person dances individually (a couple min or so, depending) with the Kallah in a sombre manner - the Chosson and others jump in and dance before the Kallah.
Having done it myself (my wife family are Hungarian)- it is rather special for the girl, particularly dancing with her father and Zeides
However, there are a few things that are very hard to explain. The Mechitza which needs to be bullet proof is all of a sudden gone and the men and women sit across the hall from each other in direct eye contact.
The Gramaning too is a little far fetched as the guy is obviously paid handsomely and is willing to embelish the truth regarding the individuals involved. Sometimes, if you listen carefully enough, you find out that somehow mysteriously you are a ben achar ben of some famous identity. This person is usually known but not unbelievable. E.g. They won't say your an eihr einikel of Noam Elimelech but rather of somone like the Mishkolts Rebbe (someone who never really existed, but believalbe). If you pay lots of money, all bets are off. You could end up being ben achar ben from the Gra/Baal Shem Tov/ Chasam Sofer and RSRH all the same time
Growing up in Williamsburg, I attended a number of chassidish weddings. What Anon describes is what I remember, except for I remember the choosin using a gartel to dance with his kallah as well.
ReplyDeleteI found this video oddly moving.
Beautifully put, Baila. Foreign to me, kind of like I was an anthropologist observing, but moving and a nice glimpse into a way of life. Kind of like the first time I saw a henna ceremony with all of the changes in costume, the different music and interesting gender-based roles for that event.
ReplyDelete