"Horror!" "Shock!" - The headlines in the Haredi press, both local and national, a few weeks ago, and any time a similar incident occurs, carried those words regarding a horrible attack by some secular youth against some Haredi men including the Rav of one of the neighborhoods in BS.
Any time there is an attack it is, or should be, "shocking" and the like.
Yet the Haredi press and community is only shocked when people attack them. When the attack is perpetrated by Haredim against others, secular or Dati Leumi, it never even gets mentioned, let alone with dramatic headlines.
On Yom Ha'Atzmaut night a group of teens were walking through RBS and were brutally attacked by a group of Haredim. These kids were attacked with rocks, potatoes, metal pots, metal belt buckles, and more, for the crime of walking through the street near the houses of these thugs while carrying Israeli flags, on their way home after a party. (source: Arutz 7)
Will we see dramatic headlines? Will the haredi press be calling for investigations and arrests? Will we display "shock" and "horror" at who is part of our community and what they can do?
Or will the Haredi media ignore it?
Once again, this explains why I WILL NOT visit RBS nor let my daughters visit, without my handgun or, at the very least, a taser.
ReplyDeleteI'll go to Mea Shearim or Geula unarmed, but that's only because they have good chanuyot sfarim.
It's only RBS-B that's a problem.
ReplyDeletedid you all see the blue stars of davids with equal signs and the swastikas all over RBS -B? Someone painted over them right after Yom HaAtzmaut
ReplyDeleteAnd yes, Chadash, our local bastion of fair reporting also wrote about the provocations of the youth against the haredim.
ReplyDeleteI drove through just after it happened and picked up some of the kids. 4 boys were taken by ambulance - hit in the head and other places with rocks or bricks (lots of blood, one of the boys was pretty bad). The worst part was the group of boys that were attacked went to the rescue of a group of girls under attack. The boys were ahead (they were walking separate)and had been let through, later when the girls came through they were the first one's lynched. All the girls were dressed appropriately, except for one who had had her skirt ripped off or pull off during the attack (she had pants (jeans) on underneath) --
ReplyDeleteChadash....you mean the paper that has Rabbi Malinowitz as it's english rabbi writer
ReplyDeleteI will not condone violence of any type. The thugs in RBS B who lynched (your word) the kids as they paraded down a residential street at close to midnight making a lot of noise were 100% wrong.
ReplyDeleteHowever, as I was trying to learn close to midnight at my dining room table, I must say I was surprised at the lack of common sense and basic midos that these youth seemed to possess. Yelling. Singing. Making a lot of noise. Some girls even said cmon throw some eggs on us. Talk about provacation!
For a community that preaches ahavas Yisroel, a little basic courtesy at 11:45 at night demands not to make so much noise parading thru a residantial area.
How much gezel sheina was there that night?
Why cant a bus be hired?
And also, not so unrelated, why was Moshe Abutbol's speech blasting across RBS A at 11:15 at night? I dont live next door, yet I heard it loud and clear!
And those fireworks? SO late? How are my kids supposed to stay up so late? Why cant we do this whole production at 9:00 at night? Why do we need to wake up the whole neighborhood?
And I will tell you why it wont get time of day in the chareidi press. Cuz its some meshuganas. No one cares about them. They are looking to get provoked, and they did. Then they fought. Great story.
Anonymous: "I will not condone violence of any type...
ReplyDeleteHowever..."
Sorry?!
What kind of an imbecile will use this lynch as an opportunity to grouch about fireworks on Yom Ha'Atzmaut - as if this (and other examples of people legitimately enjoying themselves on this national public holiday) equals some kind of "on the other hand" to the lynch?!
How would this idiot respond if chilonim lynched frum Jews on Purim night, or Shavuot night, or Simchat Torah or Seder Night..etc..when people are also up late making a happy noise?
Would he write "Yes, the chilonim lynched the frum Jews, BUT you have to understand the chilonim were provoked..."?!
Anonymous 9:36
ReplyDeleteRegarding Anonymous: "I will not condone violence of any type...
However..."
This is why I will absolutely, positively not visit RBS in any way that involves even crossing RBS Bet, without my handgun.
I freely share this advice with others who might be unaware of the tolerance for "just some meshuggeners", whether they're Israelis or tourists, Jews or non-Jews.
Considering the tolerance of their residents for violence, I say that as the Smith and Wesson was "the only law west of the Pecos", it is the only genuine protection in RBS.
I also live in rbs A.it was very later and The kids were incredible loud and wild. I also heard them yelling avanim v baytzim and laughing. They all know where they were and they were not little children. They were looking for trouble. They were being very stupid and sorry but so were all the parents that thought them walking home in these neighborhoods was a good idea. This is the way it is. of course a lot needs to change but i would never have let my childern be put in harms way like that.
ReplyDeleteThe lynching occurred in RBS Bet around 1:30 AM, near Megan Avos. The noisy kids in Aleph were not the problem. Those that were attached were not making noise just merely walking home from the events in BS (taxi's were scarce due to the holiday, the only ones I saw were Arab's from outside BS taxi companies) The boys and girls were separate and the grown men attacked the girls (several of them were grabbed and felt in inappropriate places on their bodies). The noise you referred to at midnight was from another group, in another location and not related to the attack. - A Lynching is an appropriate word for this attack. The kids didn't want to walk through bet, but there really is no choice and they have every right to talk there safely.
ReplyDeleteLet's face the facts..the kitzonim have the silent support of much more of the "mainstream" charedi community.
ReplyDeleteTwo years ago you reported here on your blog about a Melave Malka for a new Kupa in the Kirya/RBSB. This is the Kupa of the kitzonim. Who was the guest speaker?
Rabbi Shmuel Eidensohn of KUpa of RBSA and I quote:
"Rav Eidensohn, who heads the kupa of RBSA, spoke last Motzei Shabbos at the inaugural dinner of the hooligan kupa. (not last night's kupa shel Tzdaka dinner - this happened the week before) This gives them great legitimacy because he heads the Kupa of RBS A which does great work and already is a large organization with a great reputation.
When asked why he was going to be speaking there (someone present at the conversation told me) considering it gives legitimacy to the hooligans and they will use it to control their neighborhood even though they are a minority within it, he responded that he has to give them legitimacy because otherwise RBS will become too modern."
This comes from a man in RBSA who has the support of many in the Anglo Charedi crowd.
It is Rabbi Eidensohn's "friends" who did this to these kids.
Perhaps he feels that by beating up our teens that too will prevent RBSA from coming "too modern".
Realize that there are some people who have a sweet face but really want RBS to change into a full Charedi city.
Thanks for reporting all the facts.
ReplyDeleteThe way I heard it is that the innocent kids who were just walking, were actually spray paining Israeli Jewish Stars on the walls in Bet.
If thats true, I think they lose the label "innocent" and move into "trouble maker" zone.
And even if thats not true, I am sure they were making noise, singing giggling etc. These guys in Bet may be thugs but they are not muggers. They just get proviked easliy, and overreact. There has to be a second side. And I am sure there is. By claiming that they were walking quietly in the middle of then night innocently and were just attacked - inprovoked - is missing the first half of the story. Sorry. I dont buy it. And I dont care if your kid was there. I dont care if you were there. There is another side of it.
By ignoring the other side, you will never solvethe problem. Blaming only one side for an attack which didnt occur the way you claim it did will get you nowhere fast.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteand if they were? [which I doubt; look at the amount of graffiti in our city, and tell me which group is responsible for most of it...]
ReplyDeleteDo we normally send people away in ambulances for being mazik property? Is that really a standard that you think should be applied here? If so, there will certainly be a lot of people complaining about being taken to Ein Kerem...
if they were making so much noise, the police could/should be called because people are making unreasonable noise at an unreasoable time of the night. I dont know if Yopm Haatzmaut has an exception to the time noise is allowed until, but even if they were making unreasonable noise that does not justify what was done to them. call the police, I would be fine with them shpritzing water on them from their mirpesets, and other things that are essentially non-violent but would encourage the noisy entourage to move on quickly and quietly.
ReplyDeleteThe way they were reportedly beaten is not justified by any level of noise that was being made.
According to some of the commenters here, you would be completely justified to walk around the neighborhood the week before sukkos and beat people with crowbars for building sukkas at 2 in the morning, members of Purim parties that get out of hand can be throttled, and any time there is a hachnassat sefer torah that runs late eggs should be thrown along with diapers and rocks. etc.
To
ReplyDeleteThanks for reporting all the facts.
I was there with my son, why because he volunteered for the fire department that night and just got off duty. While waiting for a taxi he was attacked by non-religious kid's who drove up and jumped him. He fought with them and ran off, hid and called me. I got out of bed, got dressed and drove through Bet to get to where he was. On the way down, I saw a lot of men loitering around mind you this was around 1:30 AM. The kids were a little farther down in bet in two separate groups. I didn't not see any spray painting going on and didn't hear a lot of noise, neither group seemed to be making a lot of commotion or partying. It might have been happening, but when I saw them just before the attack it did not seem to be going on. I was driving with my windows down and slowed down a lot when I saw the groups of kids walking I took a pretty good look at them incase any of them were kids of friends of mine so I could tell their parents the next day. After finding my son I drove back through Bet. The attack had just happened. The men had let the boys pass and attacked the girls. The boys went back to try and help, those hurt worst were hit from behind with bricks or rocks. Police and ambulances were arriving / on the way. When, I was sure that enough police were there that there would not be a repeat attack, took as many of the kids as I could in my car back to Aleph. Sure there are two sides to the story, but I can't find the second side in the Torah were your allowed to attack other Jews for making noise and having a different opinion then you. Your right they are not muggers their worse. Muggers usually hurt you in the process of getting what they want or need(usually money). These men hurt Jews (pre-meditated - they had belts, bricks, pepper spray, etc.) that they used on the kids. You don't have to buy it, I'm not trying to sell it. I'm just reporting what I saw and heard myself and no members of my family or close friends were involved.
to he who says the charedi press doesnt write about charedi attacks on others is because they are meshuganas and nobody cares about them, you are proven wrong. The haredi papers are more than happy to defend them and write "their side of the story". if they were meshuganas and nobody cared about them, there would be no need to present their side of the story.
ReplyDeleteThey would be treated like all other non-haredi elemnts in the city and nation and would be ignored. but the haredi press considers them part of the haredi community enough that it feels the need to defend them, so it should also consider them part of the haredi community in order to criticize them when necessary. Unless haredim are above criticism...
Anonymous 9:36 says:
ReplyDeleteThis is why I will absolutely, positively not visit RBS in any way that involves even crossing RBS Bet, without my handgun.
Once again, never, never RBS without a handgun. And never will I passively condone what you condone.
My sons serve in IDF combat units, and I myself am armed. Feel lucky, punks?
Has anyone been arrested? Or are the police afraid that if they arrest anyone holy enough to beat up and feel up little girls the rest of the holy community might riot?
ReplyDeleteHi Rafi, someone here says they are 'quoting' from your blog from two years ago. If you really wrote such a thing, can you please post the link. Otherwise, please consider removing that comment. It is just Motze Shem Rah. Thanks.
ReplyDeleteBen,
ReplyDeleteCheck out:
http://lifeinisrael.blogspot.com/2008/02/giving-legitimacy-to-hooligans.html
So I guess it's Loshon Hara and not motzei shame rah
According to Rationalist Judaism site, another side of the story is given without the separtion of boys/girls and graffitti involved. Lets get our stories straight before we lynch the "hareidim".
ReplyDeleteThe author of the story does a terrible disservice to the Jewish people. Right now, anti frum blogs are salavating over a type of story like this. Once even worse is the cnn-like telling of the story.
Atleast some if not all(they were all together) of the DL kids are wayward teens. They drink and get high(yes, actually break the laws of the state of israel). This is a fact. As you state they were spray painting in the neighborhood. Lets imagine the scene. A bunch of drunk/ or high students are carousing through bet looking for trouble they are loud, and then start to spray paint. What do you want the people in bet to do, offer them cake and have them sit down and learn about why they dont accept independence day as a holiday?
I think it is totally wrong for anyone to use violence however they were drunken rebble rousers. In Singapore they whip graffiti artists. Lets not make the DL kids involved here as innocent boy/girl scouts on their way home to sell cookies. Lets check there blood count and illegal substance check and you will find that those teenagers suddenly withdraw their police reports.
Why do the people there wait on independence day at 2 am toi attack people? They didnt attack othe DL people walking through? They know that there are plenty of wayward teens who get drunk at the untznius concert in Bet Shemesh and then come back in packs looking for "fun". They prepared for them. Again, Its totally wrong for them to use violence however lets not be naive.
I wonder if the last anonymous would be willing to give his name; perhaps we can use him as a reference if we decide to start beating people who spray paint things like "Na Nach" or "Hamaavar B'levush"
ReplyDeleteThis whole discussion thread is exactly representative of the problem.
ReplyDeleteThere is no excuse for violence. Once we start to discuss reasons and provocation, we're saying that violence can be condoned.
If 50 residents of RBS-B were to start watching pornography, or if 50 residents of RBS-B were to start wearing grey hats, or if 50 residents of RBS-B were to start wearing semi-translucent tights, there's no question we'd see pashkevilim about pirtzas gader etc. But 50 residents of RBS-B who beat people up doesn't get a response?