The image of intermarriage today.
I wish the young couple a quick and painless divorce.
Alternatively, I wish them that Chelsea should discover Judaism and decide to become a full fledged Jew, which would also likely end in divorce, as the chosson has shown that he has no interest in Judaism. So either way the divorce should be quick and painless.
They are adults and can choose how they wish to live and whom to marry, but I don't have to support them, nor wish them well. I wish well to the Jewish people, not to them.
They look very happy, I wish them well. It was unlikely that would marry a Jew, and it's rare to see a couple that sweetly happy even on their wedding day.
ReplyDeleteI hope they continue to be happy.
Rafi...this is mean spirited and unnecessary; they are individuals and human beings who deserve happiness and peace. I understand it hurts all Jews committed to our faith and People, but we can't have ill-will towards those who do do not have such a commitment. Take down this post!!
ReplyDeletehe doesnt have to marry a committed Jew. There are plenty of Jews like him that are not committed. But this a high profile wedding and getting lots of press about how Jewish he is and how he wore a tallis and had a partially Jewish ceremony, that I felt it needed to be denounced and openly not supported.
ReplyDeleteI heard that he was adopted and may therefore not be halachakly jewish. anyone hear the same?
ReplyDeleteMy daughter has been happily dating her non-Jewish boyfriend for about a year, and it bothers me to no end. I too have often wished for their breakup. If it ever comes to marriage, I will try to accept him as best I can. It will be a huge challenge, but I'm not going to sit shiva for my daughter as my grandfather's uncle did. That's right, Fiddler on the Roof was based on my family.
ReplyDeleteMy brother has a book on how to break up a couple. I'm not going to borrow it. I see your view but also relate to those who commented on the post. We've lost more Jews to intermarriage than the Holocaust, but the groom has chosen his own life.
If the bride chooses to be Jewish on her own free will, we must accept her. Why would you still want a divorce if she converted? My sister-in-law converted and is more Jewish than I've ever been. She adheres to an Orthodox lifestyle. That part didn't make sense to me.
if she converted I would not want a divorce, but it would very possibly end in divorce as she might be far more committed than he, as often happens... unless they find Judaism together and then all is great.
ReplyDeletethere are thousands of intermarragies happening all the time. i dont have the answer to stop it, the old way hasnt worked and the newer way of pooh pooh'ing their feelings hasnt worked either. Ok, and I dont need to condemn each one. i can ignore it like most people and leave it in the hands of people who know how to work with such couples and either get the non-jewish half to convert or to try to break them up.
ReplyDeleteThis match is high profile and glamorous in the press. This one shows everyone else that it is ok. This one does need to be loudly condemned.
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ReplyDeleteWhat an unnecessary blog-item, Rafi G. I'm sorry that I followed this blog. I am not Jew, have no Jewish ancestors, but I have always supported the Jewish culture and faith. I will continue to do so, but without following your blog.
ReplyDeleteYour comment is no better than those Arabs who attack everybody else for not following THEIR faith. If there is no inter-marriage, there can be no understanding between cultures.
I'm a Christian supporter of Israel, but no longer follower of this blog.
sorry, christian supporter of Israel, but that is as stupid as any reason I have ever heard for supporting intermarriage.
ReplyDeleteOnce upon a time there was a very powerful king who married a Jew. Chazal was so disgusted by the marriage that they created a holiday in her honor after she saved the Jewish people. Her grandson, authorized the rebuilding of the Beit HaMikdash.
ReplyDeleteThey are still people. You don't accomplish anything by condemner them after it is a done deal.
I have no influence and before its a done deal I would have accomplished, did not accomplish, anything either.
ReplyDeleteThere is still the need to protest. This is my personal protest and statement of rejection. She didnt even convert reform where one could say she did the minimum to be considered a Jew even though Orthodox dont accept it. She didnt even do that.
And there are others who might now be more attuned to intermarriage - maybe they were on the brink but afraid of being rejected. now they see everyone is so accepting. Perhaps a vocal rejection will stop someone else from intermarrying.
If my cousin intermarries I dont go to the wedding but am still civil towards them.
ReplyDeleteIn this case - I was not invited nor will I ever have interaction with them therefore condemn seems appropriate.
This is not a shanda and is SHOULD be.
Those who say the Jews in America have made it should also condemn.
RE Esther - interesting question and many have answers (kidnapped, forced, it was a secret, it was to save the entire people....) but here it is a red herring.
Bottom line condemn and reject all intermarriages the Clintons and the cousins.
I agree. the family has to figure out for itself how to deal with it. they might be more accepting. and on a personal level, that is their business.
ReplyDeleteJust cry, cry baby ,cry baby now (hat tip-Janis Joplin) for another defection from the covenant of destiny
ReplyDeleteKT
Joel Rich
I have yet to find someone who was so moved by someone yelling Shabbos or having their car stoned that they became BT.
ReplyDeleteThis is the approach we have taken to intermarriage. Beforehand we make a judgement in terms of how much influence we have.
We will not attend the wedding as that would be an act of condoning the event. After the fact we treat them like regular people.
Down the line, the couples tend to want nothing to do with the type of Judaism that would authentic treating them has sub-human. They have respect and are open to at the very least appreciating the beliefs of people who were nice to them.
All that you accomplished with this post, is caused some people to think that you are a jerk.
The girl looks as ungly as sin what did the guy see in her to marry out of the faith? I guess he like her Yichus.
ReplyDeletekol tuv,
eh - welcome back. its been a while since you commented..
ReplyDeleteI dont mind if they think I am a jerk because of it. I feel like I need to take a position, and with all the glorification given to this in the media I feel the position needs to be the other side - calling them out and criticising them.
I am not throwing stoines at them and I will likely never see them nor them me, for us to argue about it, nor would I be the right person to try to persaude them to do one thing or another. But I feel like with all the glorification being given to the wedding, someone needed to remind others that this is an intermarriage and we dont approve of it.
I still think you could have delivered your message in a much more meaningful tactful way.
ReplyDeleteMy father who is in no way someone you would consider frum, was wondering what type of Rabbi would marry them on a Saturday afternoon.
We were in Chul for 6 weeks and I didn't have time to read any blogs never mind write.
I have a great baseball story I think you will enjoy. I will try to remember to let you know when it is posted.
This one shows everyone else that it is ok. This one does need to be loudly condemned.
ReplyDeleteNah, I don't think so. I don't care what the non-MOTs think about it. Let them think what they will.
But if you want to build bridges and have a shot at bringing more
Yidden this isn't such a bad thing.
Obviously not ideal, but we don't know what will come of it.
I wouldn't say he has no interest in Judaism. If you look at the picture, you can see that his shave isn't so good. Obviously, he didn't go for the razor shave out of his conviction that it is halachically proscribed.
ReplyDeleteTo Joyce Lansky,
ReplyDeletewould you consider reading a great book called, Why Marry Jewish?
http://www.amazon.com/Why-Marry-Jewish-Doron-Kornbluth/dp/1568712502
There is even a free preview on Google Books:
ReplyDeletehttp://books.google.com/books?id=l9OTocap-NMC&dq=why+marry+jewish&printsec=frontcover&source=bn&hl=en&ei=8nhWTPfIHMiiOIfs_Z4O&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=4&ved=0CCEQ6AEwAw#v=onepage&q&f=false
I think the speculation is somewhat meaningless because we have no way of knowing whether he's halachically a Jew or not.
ReplyDeleteIts a nice place to visit but I wouldn't want to live there...
ReplyDeleteshe's a really nice young woman, but I wouldn't want her to marry into the family.
Judaism is an exclusionary religion. We've all been spoon fed the crap of political correctness and having to accept everyone no matter what that the minute you have a 'negative' opinion, you're branded a racist or anti-semite or... whatever.
Chelsea might be a really nice young lady and she'd probably be a delight to invite to the family BBQ. As a Jew however, I wouldn't want to invite her into my family (unless she converted).
Rafi, I do agree with you. The late Rabbi Meir Kahane got a lot of flack for his principled opposition to inter-marriage. Its not about love. Its about Jewish survival. I have no expectation liberal Jews understand it, so they will vanish from the world. If they don't care who their children marry, there will be no Jews around in the future.
ReplyDeleteThat's basically the issue. Not about racism. No Jew can really bless inter-marriage and still expect to have the children grow up to identify with the Jewish people. I will add one more thing in closing Rafi: ironically, the same liberal Jews who see nothing wrong with inter-marriage are the same liberal Jews opposed to a proposed conversion law in Israel that would make non-Jewish Russian spouses in Israel full-fledged Jews!
Its called having your cake and eating it too and gives them little credibility when they say they are concerned about keeping the next generation of Jews committed Jews who strengthen the Jewish people and its future.