In the United States a person can find online the exact location of convicted sexual offenders, as they are required to report in, and their location is publicized by the State officials. This allows people to know to be cautious in certain areas.
Israel has not had such a system, letting the public know about predators in their area. Israel now has such a system in place. "B'Sheket" has been established by a group of concerned parents, with the hope that it will be the impetus to force the government and police to put the concerns of the children before the good of the perps.
I don't all of the locations of offenders in Israel but I do know that an inordinate amount live here in RBS.
ReplyDeleteI wonder if it has anything to do with the attitude of certain (not all) rabis who look more favorably toward perps than their victims. (And punish those who are out there trying to protect the innocents).
they arent listed on the site, because they are only alleged offenders, or accused. The site, as in the US, can only publicize those already convicted.
ReplyDeleteRafi,
ReplyDeleteAs the rabbis continue to tell people not to report and file charges these people will remain alleged or accused.
Convictions will only come when victims feel safe to folloe due process.
RBS,
ReplyDeleteWhy must you cover by saying certain rabbis? These "rabbis" are proud of their opinion that people shouldn't report.
Rabbi Malinowitz has said openly that people should not go to authorities with abuse allegations but rather come to him.
What I don't understand is how a shul full of educated people (many of whom are doctors,lawyers,etc) had enough intelligence to achieve these degrees and business acumen but can't think for themselves when it comes to protecting children.
How can such people follow evil and damaging advice when it comes to the safety of their children.
And if they disagree with their rav's reckless attitude why do they continue to support him?
Intelligent - an article by Rabbi BenTzion Kokis suggests that during the Baalei Teshuva process it is typical to shut off one's own sense of moral judgment. He even seems to affirm this as proper, as the baal teshuva encounters "the realization that in the world of Torah he cannot follow his own hunches in deciding what is right and what is wrong."
ReplyDeleteFurther, the Charedi/Daas Torah hashkafa says this about everyone - that we need direct guidance from Rabbonim to tell us what is really optimal when living a Torah life.
Of course I personally think about the do-not-emigrate-to-America advice given as the Holocaust loomed. I know Rav Wasserman is quoted as saying better they perished physically than spiritually, but I had heard an alternate reflection from another Gadol - no one knew, and it was up to each person to rely on his own instincts for survival.
I don't mean to be referring to such topics lightly by the way.
ReplyDelete"Further, the Charedi/Daas Torah hashkafa says this about everyone - that we need direct guidance from Rabbonim to tell us what is really optimal when living a Torah life."
ReplyDeleteYes, but there are many gedolim and baalei "daas Torah" who say that reporting is mandatory.
I was at a well attended Shabbos HaGadol drasha in RBSA where a very well respected rav said that one should report.
Thank G-d we have rabbonim like that to balance out the others.
Regarding the moral judgement of the baal tshuva...many members of Rav Malinowitz's shul are FFB with smicha, etc.
I don't see how this would apply.
What ever happened with the guy from Nachal Dolev who was arrested a few weeks ago? Anyone know his name?
ReplyDeleteas far as I know, his case has been turned over to the prosecutor and he is under house arrest in the meantime.
ReplyDeleteRafi,
ReplyDeleteI have heard that some parents who wanted to report about this man they were told by their rav NOT to.
Anon - I know Rav Wasserman is quoted as saying better they perished physically than spiritually
ReplyDeleteHow could he possibly know this? The evidence has shown that plenty of Shoah victims lost their faith at the time. So by the time they died, they may have already been "killed" spiritually.
Don't Tell Just Be Silent said.."I have heard that some parents who wanted to report about this man they were told by their rav NOT to."
ReplyDeleteRabbi Kornfeld supposedly told several families not to file reports on the guy on Dolev. Can anyone confirm this?
Also, is it true that the alledged perp is a member of Rabbi Kornfeld's shul?
And that this guy's nefarious activities were well known to Rav K for years?
Isn't it a criminal offence in Israel for a Rabbi to avoid reporting?
Anon,
ReplyDeleteAs a parent of a victim I can confirm that Rav Kornfeld did in fact tell parents to not report.
And yes, this guy is a member of the Gra shul.
I don't know whether or not Rav Kornfeld was aware for a while.
We were devastated at the lack of sensitivity from the rav. While he said that he feels for us he seemed much more concerned about keeping us from the authorities.
We have been asked to respond to this question:
ReplyDelete"Isn't it a criminal offence in Israel for a Rabbi to avoid reporting?"
The Mandatory Reporting/Child Protection Law in Israel demands that ANYONE with a reasonable suspicion that a child has been abused must report this to the police or Child Protection officer of the Social Services.
So, yes, Rabbis, like the rest of us, are Mandatory Reporters in Israel.
The law also states that the sentence for failure to report such a suspicion is 3-6 months in prison.
Magen actively encourages and assists members of the public in reporting suspicions of child abuse, as required under the law.
Magen,
ReplyDeleteWhy do you think that you or the secular government of Israel knows better than the rabbonim about mesira,loshon hara and child abuse?
If rabbonim say that you can't report then you must listen.
How could talmidei chochomim and poskim be endangering people?
The answer is they are not.
Daas Torah is a "four eyes" approach and knows what is best for us and our children.
what does "four eyes approach" mean?
ReplyDeleteThe four eyes are the eyes of the rav and the eyes of the Torah.
ReplyDeleteThis is something that people out of the world of Torah can't or won't understand.
I heard Rabbi Haber speak about this in his Shabbas Hagadol drosho. Rabbi Haber brought plenty of makoros to support his position.
ReplyDeleteRabbi Haber was very clear in his conclusion that the halacha is that we must immediately report suspicions of child abuse to the police.
It seems that Rabbi Kornfeld and Rabbi Malinowitz differ with Rabbi Haber (plus many other Rabbonim locally and around the Jewish world) on this issue.
Either way, if you get arrested and imprisonned for NOT reporting, the judge is going to laugh if your defence is "my rabbi told me".
And if your child is abused by someone who is operating under the protection of your rabbi - how are you going to explain THAT to your child??
No wonder child abuse victims in the frum world often then dump their religion.
Since when does "daas torah" mean doing what a rabbi says, even when you know it's nonsense?
ReplyDeleteOr in this case, even when what he says is dangerous for the children of our community and a crime under the law?
When that happens, two of the "four eyes" are blind.
It's not time to go "against daas Torah" chas vechalila - it's time you get a new rabbi.
Anon of 11:01,
ReplyDeleteNice thinking but perhaps you can't see around you...we live amongst many people who have no problem putting their children, their families and their communities at risk in order to honor Da'as Torah.
I would like to hear how the members of BTYA justify staying around a man who openly tells people don't go to the authorities..come to me. How can they justify accepting and enforcing the ban against Lema'an Achai.
Yes, I brought it up here..because as long as it remains in BTYA someone has to be vocal about it.
As time passes people will forget why their rav forbids Lema'an Acha from collecting in the shul and the reason is....
Their rav doesn't like the voice of David Morris who is out there to protect and defend our children. So in order to silence that voice he tried to hurt the tzedaka dear to him.
I can't believe that this kehilla of thinking and just people continue to tolerate the Nuremberg laws of their rav.
What connection is there between tzedaka and not liking David Morris?
So until the ban is lifted you will all hear about the injustice being carried out against our children and against Lema'an Achai by a man who is acting in a manner quite unbefitting a rav and talmid chochum.
Don't like the rant?
Lift the cherem!
voice - you brought it up here, and I see a general connection based on topic, but it has already been mentioned that the case being discussed has to do with a different shul and different rabbi.
ReplyDeleteJust for interest - do any/some/many people from the Gra read LII?
ReplyDeleteRafi,
ReplyDeleteI hear what you are saying however it is the general atmosphere created (and tolerated) that allows the rav of any shul to act in this way be it BTYA, the Gra or any other.
The masses must understand that there is danger in blindly following the edicts of anyone, including a rav, especially when there is substantial support from many rabbonim to the opposite.
Tha being said I will respect your hint and not rant further in this thread.
Thank you for the opportunity.
Unlike BTYA, the Gra didn't impose a cherem on Lema'an Achai as a way to shut-up a child protection program.
ReplyDeleteIndeed Rav Kornfeld was quoted (by name)as supporting Rav Malinowitz's position in Jonathan Rosenblum infamous JPost article.
However... the Gra has had an effective cherem on Lema'an Achai for about 10 years - and so had no more cards to play!!!