I don't get it - he looks even more 'frum' by the end of the video than at the beginning (apart from the Santa outfit). Is he no longer worth anything because he is no longer a Meshichist Lubavitcher? What is wrong with him being a different kind of religious Jew? Can someone please explain?
I cannot understand why the Lubavitchers that were close to him originally didn't simply tell him that a frumer Yid cannot play in clubs etc.
He could have become a mainstream frum musician like Avraham Fried or found another career. Many people have given up inappropriate careers after becoming BTs.
I think the well meaning attitude is responsible for what we see today.
Rabbi - I had the same thoughts, but I guess from their perspective he has changed for the worse..
Lub - isnt the chabad creed that they dont change their lives (when they become frum as most chabadniks become that way via becoming frum) and reject the outside world, rather they approach the outside workld with open arms and work within? that is what he was doing, and chabad was proud to have a celebrity..
and he wrote his own Jewish music. just because the beat and style was reggea-ish instead of pop-rock like most Jewish music, that does not make his music any less jewish.
I am not justifying anything. its his life. I am just responding to what you said. he was singing jewish music. became a celeb. was famous. perfect for chabad. they loved him. he was a poster boy for a long time.
whats the difference playing music or doing other things? chabadniks go around the world catering to whomever comes their way, and that includes inappropriately dressed women. it seems you like shock value and keep saying naked shiksas, but unless you point me to somethign speciific I am assuming you are talking about him playing music in front of women who are dressed skimpily which is nowadays the normal mode of dress, and no different than anything any other chabadnik deals with and sees in his daily shlichus.
Oy Rafi. We need to go back to basics. If you think thus poor confused and might I add exploited boy named Marusyahu, playing in goyisher clubs is like Lubavitchers doing kiruv, then we have nothing to talk about.
Go ask ANY Lub Rav and they'll tell you.
Have the nutcases in RBS really turned you away from the chareidi derech that much??
i am also a little concerned, and if it wasn't for the payos, i would assume he was on his way off again. The santa outfit really bothered me. That being said, one less lubab in the world? nu, nu...
its his version of kiruv. dmitry salita and yuri foremen continue boxing. the crowds that come to boxing matches are not known for their modest dress.
Just admit it - chabad is very liberal in what it allows to happen under its name (though Matisyahu left chabad a while back), and just like people get influenced to become frum, and maybe dress more like chabad, other people might react differently and go further away from chabad.
I have no idea if he is becoming less religious or if it is all part of an act, but it is implied in the video that he is on his way off.
Who says what salita and foremen are doing us right? Anyway how from are they? I don't think either are fully fledged Lubavitchers. Not that they need to be, but at one point Marisyahu was a Lub and at that point should have been told that he cannot be פוסח על שתי הסעפים.
they are both frum, they are both lubav, they both study with lubav rabbis gemara and halacha to become rabbis, they are both fine people, and chabad is ok with it and with the association with them.
Right or wrong, that is the way Chabad is. thats all I am saying.
Fine people? I never made a comment about their characters. I have no doubt they are wonderful sell meaning individuals. But neither of the 2 boxers is a Lubavitcher. Again they dont need to be, it's their choice. But you cannot bring a proof from them. Matisyahu was once a Lub.
The point I'm trying (clearly unsuccessfully) to make is that Lub should have made it clear to M that he could not continue with what he was doing. That's how it would have been during the lifetime of the Rebbe ztz"l.
I understand your point, but am saying that Lubavitch doent do that. they like the celebrities and like them the way they are because it thrusts Lubav into even more limelight. probably they like it because it allows them more opportunities for what they do and more access to money.
Yes, maybe they should have told him off early in his career. Whether or not he would have listened i another story, but maybe they should have told him off. I am saying that while perhaps they should have, that is something they dont do.
Ah...I'm getting somewhere. As I said before Lub never used ti do this. I know Lub BTs from 20 years ago who gave up professions that were inappropriate fir a frummer Yid. Sure professors were encouraged by the Rebbe himself to stay in academia and use their credentials fir kiruv. But clearly this has nothing to do with performing in goyisher clubs. No Lub Rav on the world would ever permit that.
I would have no probl with that. they could have called him in and told him that he is pushing the envelope, too close to the edge, and if he wants to stay affiliated with chabad then he has to make certain changes.
I wonder what he would have done had somebody called him in like that.. he ended up leaving chabad anyway...
as far as I know the Chabad leaders did encourage him to be a singer. He left Chabad because of personal reasons and wanting to change himself. Telling him not to do it any longer would have made him less frum not more. Chabad did lose him, as unfortunately the winds were way too strong for him to hold on.
I don't get it - he looks even more 'frum' by the end of the video than at the beginning (apart from the Santa outfit). Is he no longer worth anything because he is no longer a Meshichist Lubavitcher? What is wrong with him being a different kind of religious Jew?
ReplyDeleteCan someone please explain?
I cannot understand why the Lubavitchers that were close to him originally didn't simply tell him that a frumer Yid cannot play in clubs etc.
ReplyDeleteHe could have become a mainstream frum musician like Avraham Fried or found another career. Many people have given up inappropriate careers after becoming BTs.
I think the well meaning attitude is responsible for what we see today.
Rabbi - I had the same thoughts, but I guess from their perspective he has changed for the worse..
ReplyDeleteLub - isnt the chabad creed that they dont change their lives (when they become frum as most chabadniks become that way via becoming frum) and reject the outside world, rather they approach the outside workld with open arms and work within?
that is what he was doing, and chabad was proud to have a celebrity..
Playing goyisher music in front of naked shiksas us the Chabad way? Please!!!
ReplyDeleteWomen singers that became frum stopped singing in front of men at great financial cost.
he's not a woman.
ReplyDeleteand he wrote his own Jewish music. just because the beat and style was reggea-ish instead of pop-rock like most Jewish music, that does not make his music any less jewish.
I am not justifying anything. its his life. I am just responding to what you said. he was singing jewish music. became a celeb. was famous. perfect for chabad. they loved him. he was a poster boy for a long time.
Naked shiksas Rafi. How far have you strayed from your yeshiva background??
ReplyDeletewhats the difference playing music or doing other things? chabadniks go around the world catering to whomever comes their way, and that includes inappropriately dressed women.
ReplyDeleteit seems you like shock value and keep saying naked shiksas, but unless you point me to somethign speciific I am assuming you are talking about him playing music in front of women who are dressed skimpily which is nowadays the normal mode of dress, and no different than anything any other chabadnik deals with and sees in his daily shlichus.
Oy Rafi. We need to go back to basics. If you think thus poor confused and might I add exploited boy named Marusyahu, playing in goyisher clubs is like Lubavitchers doing kiruv, then we have nothing to talk about.
ReplyDeleteGo ask ANY Lub Rav and they'll tell you.
Have the nutcases in RBS really turned you away from the chareidi derech that much??
i am also a little concerned, and if it wasn't for the payos, i would assume he was on his way off again. The santa outfit really bothered me.
ReplyDeleteThat being said, one less lubab in the world? nu, nu...
its his version of kiruv.
ReplyDeletedmitry salita and yuri foremen continue boxing. the crowds that come to boxing matches are not known for their modest dress.
Just admit it - chabad is very liberal in what it allows to happen under its name (though Matisyahu left chabad a while back), and just like people get influenced to become frum, and maybe dress more like chabad, other people might react differently and go further away from chabad.
I have no idea if he is becoming less religious or if it is all part of an act, but it is implied in the video that he is on his way off.
the crowds that come to boxing matches are not known for their modest dress.
ReplyDeleteHee hee and neither are the boxers.
Who says what salita and foremen are doing us right? Anyway how from are they? I don't think either are fully fledged Lubavitchers. Not that they need to be, but at one point Marisyahu was a Lub and at that point should have been told that he cannot be פוסח על שתי הסעפים.
ReplyDeleteyou just confirmed what I have been saying.
ReplyDeletethey are both frum, they are both lubav, they both study with lubav rabbis gemara and halacha to become rabbis, they are both fine people, and chabad is ok with it and with the association with them.
Right or wrong, that is the way Chabad is. thats all I am saying.
Fine people? I never made a comment about their characters. I have no doubt they are wonderful sell meaning individuals. But neither of the 2 boxers is a Lubavitcher. Again they dont need to be, it's their choice. But you cannot bring a proof from them. Matisyahu was once a Lub.
ReplyDeleteThe point I'm trying (clearly unsuccessfully) to make is that Lub should have made it clear to M that he could not continue with what he was doing. That's how it would have been during the lifetime of the Rebbe ztz"l.
I understand your point, but am saying that Lubavitch doent do that. they like the celebrities and like them the way they are because it thrusts Lubav into even more limelight. probably they like it because it allows them more opportunities for what they do and more access to money.
ReplyDeleteYes, maybe they should have told him off early in his career. Whether or not he would have listened i another story, but maybe they should have told him off. I am saying that while perhaps they should have, that is something they dont do.
Ah...I'm getting somewhere. As I said before Lub never used ti do this. I know Lub BTs from 20 years ago who gave up professions that were inappropriate fir a frummer Yid. Sure professors were encouraged by the Rebbe himself to stay in academia and use their credentials fir kiruv. But clearly this has nothing to do with performing in goyisher clubs. No Lub Rav on the world would ever permit that.
ReplyDeleteJust ask if you don't accept what I'm saying.
I would have no probl with that. they could have called him in and told him that he is pushing the envelope, too close to the edge, and if he wants to stay affiliated with chabad then he has to make certain changes.
ReplyDeleteI wonder what he would have done had somebody called him in like that.. he ended up leaving chabad anyway...
as far as I know the Chabad leaders did encourage him to be a singer. He left Chabad because of personal reasons and wanting to change himself. Telling him not to do it any longer would have made him less frum not more. Chabad did lose him, as unfortunately the winds were way too strong for him to hold on.
ReplyDelete