To continue beating the dead horse of the issue of how common or uncommon it is for people to skip paying on mehadrin bus lines, a psak has been issued, I don't know who issued it but a local Jerusalem newspaper called "Zman Yerushalayim" wrote that it is being is publicized in Bet Shemesh and Beitar, that everyone including all women who get on the bus in the back, must pay for the bus ride when they get on the bus. Any woman who gets on the bus and does not pay, her name and the fact that she skipped payment will be publicized in the community.
I wonder how they will know who paid and who did not, so as to publicize her name. Are they prophets to know who pays and who does not pay?
Also, they won't even write the women's names on bar mitzva and wedding invitations, and now they are going to spread a woman's name around the neighborhood, whether on pashkevils or by word of mouth?
but I like that they are trying to crack down and make sure everyone realizes how serious lack of payment is. I am sure most who skip payment do so not intending to steal - maybe they have a few kids and cant bother digging out the bus pass and figure they will do it next time, or the like. Then maybe they forget or maybe they even do pay later. It does not matter because when you get on the bus you have to pay for the ride. Anything else is theft.
Funny coming from the same community that shields child molestors.
ReplyDeleteDamage a child and we'll be moser nefesh to protect you..don't pay your bus fare and your name will be publicized.
Priorities.
If this gets off the ground at all, I predict that it will last no longer than the first time they publicize someone's name, and it turns out they made a mistake.
ReplyDeleteSomeone didn't think this through.
There is an encouraging side to this story. They are taking on the issue of theft because they do not want to lose segregation. Translation: the community is perfectly willing to deploy social pressure when it will cost something that matters to them.
ReplyDeleteAlas, the list of things that matter to them is not a list to which I can subscribe.
they won't even write the women's names on bar mitzva and wedding invitations
ReplyDeleteLOL
But how are the women supposed to pay without violating all the other chumrot of tzniut in the process - they can't pass their money up since it will mean handing off between man & woman at some point, and they certainly can't walk up to the front....
Damage a child and we'll be moser nefesh to protect you...
ReplyDeleteOnly if you've first achieved the status of a Rebbe or Morah or established member of the community.
Why would they not put women's names on invitations? Do women not get names anymore? They've been reduced to cattle? "Mr. Greenbauch and that cow-thing he lives with"?
ReplyDeleteWhat do you mean by not putting women's names on invitations?
ReplyDeleteit is very common in the israeli haredi community, probably even a standard already, that womens names do not go on invitations or mentioned anywhere in public (except the name of the kallah in the case of a wedding). it is considered not tzanua to mention her name in public.
ReplyDeletethey will write moshe yankel "vrayato" (and his wife)
Rafi, do the invitations by Beis Tefilla members generally follow that convention?
ReplyDeleteI think they should come out with a psak that when cooking meat, milk may not be added as an ingredient.
ReplyDeleteHey, if they need a psak not to steal, they need a basar vechalav one as well!
anonymous - not that I have noticed
ReplyDeletelast anonymous - thats why I did not give this post the title of interesting psak
Recently I have been seeing more and more shopping carts in the neighborhood far away from the store. Many people do not return them. (They shouldn't be taking them home in the first place without permission from the store).
ReplyDeleteSomething needs to change in the chinuch to place honesty as a top priority. It is too easy for people to come up with all sorts of rationalizations for less than honest behavior.
Something needs to change in the chinuch to place honesty as a top priority.
ReplyDeleteBut your example as well as bus payment is all about adult behavior. There's nothing we can introduce in the schools that will stick, if the parents don't exemplify it or at least wish they did (like kollel maybe).
The fact that a woman gets on the back of the bus and has to push through a thick crowd of men in order to pay, defeats the whole purpose of a segregated bus, making the whole question of segregation pointless anyway.
ReplyDelete"I am sure most who skip payment do so not intending to steal - maybe they have a few kids and cant bother digging out the bus pass and figure they will do it next time, or the like."
ReplyDeleteCan't bother? Duh, well in that case, that's stealing. Tell me, if she goes to the market with kids, and fills her cart, and can't bother to dig out money, and she'll do it next time, what would you call that?
Hey Olam Hafuch, that's a pretty stupid comment. How many other things are you going to connect to this issue? The other day, someone was speeding. Funny coming from a community that shields child molesters. The recycling bin is full on my street. Funny coming from a community that shields child molesters. I hate the speed bumps on Lachish. Funny coming from a community that shields child molesters. The soup had a bug in it. Funny coming from a community that shields child molesters. Anything else?
Saab LOL.
ReplyDeleteMaybe they send the money with their husbands since they can get on the front?
Wanna Saab,
ReplyDeleteYour post shows where you are coming from (and where you daven).
The connection is that if they are so concerned about stealing (which they should be) than they should also take a stand against molesters.
I hope that you never have to deal with a child who was molested.
Then again you most probably will go to a rav who will convince you that it never happened or at least not to tell.
Hafuch/Anon 10:47
ReplyDeleteYou're way too responsive to some charedi PR that would have you believe all piskei halacha come from the same source and all Gedolim believe and say the exact same thing.
Stop reading walls - it's bad for your health if you're dati leumi also, even if all it does for you is breed sinat chinam.
Anon of the Early Morn (5:50)
ReplyDeleteThe problem is that there are many people out there who do believe everything that they read (and hear).