Just to play devil's advocate, consider that the first allegations appears days after he criticized the Kadima leadership of the day for how they screwed up the retreat from 'Aza. Remember how the first allegations had to be withdrawn when they couldn't stand up to scrutiny, almost like someone had decided this is what he would be convicted with and kept trying to find the right people to do it with.
Just to play devil's advocate, consider that the first allegations appears days after he criticized the Kadima leadership of the day for how they screwed up the retreat from 'Aza. Remember how the first allegations had to be withdrawn when they couldn't stand up to scrutiny, almost like someone had decided this is what he would be convicted with and kept trying to find the right people to do it with.
Your devil's advocacy makes absolutely no sense in light of today's politics. Kadima is not in power and they certainly don't hold any sway over the judiciary. The pullout from Gaza has been deemed a fiasco. Katzav was a nobody politically in a nothing, ceremonial job. What possible political motivation could their be to "frame" him then or now? If anything, I'm sure he had many more political strings he could have pulled to get himself off the hook.
I don't think he is guilty. the women who accused him came forward years after the fact and continued to work for him. If she was telling the truth than she should have come forward immidiatly. Some things in this case are very fishy.
It seems that the entire conviction is based on the judges ability to divine that he is lying and that she is telling the truth using ther Superjudge powers that Israelis judges pride themselves in.
FOr example - the tapes that were just released do not prove anything at least the part being reported on jpost - A ccould just have taped a phone call that she made in which she was acting as if somethign happened.
Is there anything on those tapes which actually shows Katzav acting on an assumption that indeed he did something improper?
What woman who has been raped calls her rapist up on the phone to say, "Woe is me, you have a life and I don't give me $250,000 and I won't show anyone the pictures?"
They had an affair at most and she got dumped. I do not by the rape charge..
I dont know where he was when he said this. I saw the quote referenced on Arutz 7. He didnt say it to the press, but had said it to someone else who related his words.
to all arguing his innocence - I have no idea. Maybe it is a conspiracy. I did not pay attention to the details of the case during the four years of the trial. I am not familiar with what all the evidence is, what was accepted and what did not work. My comment was solely based on the conviction in court, not on anything else.
I wouldn't rely on the courts of Israel. They have not been known to be righteous in their judgments - these who have no nomination oversight but nominate themselves! who put religious girls in prison for months but release Palestinian murderers for absolutely nothing? You rely on their judgments?
Yes it makes the courts rather suspicious - suddenly every sub-group in the country is singing their praises, "see - justice rules in Israel." I don't know the particular agendas of those judges, but we have seen judges in this country rule according to principle vs. reality before. Which makes a jury of one's peers look that much more appealing....
Baruch Hashem this country was spared the gory details of the case, unlike when the Clinton-Lewinsky court transcripts were released. But from what little details were out there, Katzav was clearly entangled with this "Aleph" beyond some specific incidents that were classified as rape. He was a fool (and immoral of course) to be messing around with a woman who wasn't presidential-affair material. Whether the actual conviction is more severe than the reality, powerful people earn these kinds of messes through their own foolishness and lack of control.
Just to play devil's advocate, consider that the first allegations appears days after he criticized the Kadima leadership of the day for how they screwed up the retreat from 'Aza. Remember how the first allegations had to be withdrawn when they couldn't stand up to scrutiny, almost like someone had decided this is what he would be convicted with and kept trying to find the right people to do it with.
ReplyDeleteJust to play devil's advocate, consider that the first allegations appears days after he criticized the Kadima leadership of the day for how they screwed up the retreat from 'Aza. Remember how the first allegations had to be withdrawn when they couldn't stand up to scrutiny, almost like someone had decided this is what he would be convicted with and kept trying to find the right people to do it with.
ReplyDeletewow, the depths of his hubris know no bounds.
ReplyDeleteYour devil's advocacy makes absolutely no sense in light of today's politics. Kadima is not in power and they certainly don't hold any sway over the judiciary. The pullout from Gaza has been deemed a fiasco. Katzav was a nobody politically in a nothing, ceremonial job. What possible political motivation could their be to "frame" him then or now? If anything, I'm sure he had many more political strings he could have pulled to get himself off the hook.
ReplyDeleteI don't think he is guilty. the women who accused him came forward years after the fact and continued to work for him. If she was telling the truth than she should have come forward immidiatly. Some things in this case are very fishy.
ReplyDeleteHas anyone seen any evidence?
ReplyDeleteIt seems that the entire conviction is based on the judges ability to divine that he is lying and that she is telling the truth using ther Superjudge powers that Israelis judges pride themselves in.
FOr example - the tapes that were just released do not prove anything at least the part being reported on jpost - A ccould just have taped a phone call that she made in which she was acting as if somethign happened.
Is there anything on those tapes which actually shows Katzav acting on an assumption that indeed he did something improper?
I still haven't seen it.
Uh, not so quick:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.jpost.com/NationalNews/Article.aspx?id=201930#
What woman who has been raped calls her rapist up on the phone to say, "Woe is me, you have a life and I don't give me $250,000 and I won't show anyone the pictures?"
They had an affair at most and she got dumped. I do not by the rape charge..
where did he say this?
ReplyDeleteI dont know where he was when he said this. I saw the quote referenced on Arutz 7. He didnt say it to the press, but had said it to someone else who related his words.
ReplyDeleteto all arguing his innocence - I have no idea. Maybe it is a conspiracy. I did not pay attention to the details of the case during the four years of the trial. I am not familiar with what all the evidence is, what was accepted and what did not work.
My comment was solely based on the conviction in court, not on anything else.
Did that story "I knocked and he was wearing only a shirt" happen in his office? Weird way to dress in one's office, no?
ReplyDeleteI wouldn't rely on the courts of Israel. They have not been known to be righteous in their judgments - these who have no nomination oversight but nominate themselves! who put religious girls in prison for months but release Palestinian murderers for absolutely nothing? You rely on their judgments?
ReplyDeleteYes it makes the courts rather suspicious - suddenly every sub-group in the country is singing their praises, "see - justice rules in Israel." I don't know the particular agendas of those judges, but we have seen judges in this country rule according to principle vs. reality before. Which makes a jury of one's peers look that much more appealing....
ReplyDeleteIt's a shame for him that the vitims weren't children.
ReplyDeleteThen Katzav would have gotten off "scott free" both in the eyes of the courts and the rabbis.
Baruch Hashem this country was spared the gory details of the case, unlike when the Clinton-Lewinsky court transcripts were released. But from what little details were out there, Katzav was clearly entangled with this "Aleph" beyond some specific incidents that were classified as rape. He was a fool (and immoral of course) to be messing around with a woman who wasn't presidential-affair material. Whether the actual conviction is more severe than the reality, powerful people earn these kinds of messes through their own foolishness and lack of control.
ReplyDelete