Rav Gershon Edelstein, one of the rosh yeshivas of Ponovezh yeshiva, is trying to work out a new arrangement for yeshiva students in their dealing with getting the deferments from the IDF. The way it works right now is that the students who are registered in yeshiva get an automatic deferment, but they have to go down to the recruitment center (lishkat geeyus) on draft day and make the deferment official.
Rav Edelstein is pushing to change the system so the boys wont have to go down at all, but will simply be able to send in the proper forms via the yeshiva, without actually physically going down to the lishkat geeyus.
I am all for minimizing bureaucracy whenever possible, and if this can be worked out, it seems like a great idea. Perhaps it is crucial for the boys to show up, so they can see the person in the flesh and guarantee the person is real, or maybe that is not a concern and this is just a remnant of the high days of Israeli bureaucracy.
I would expect Rav Edelstein's reason for pushing for this change to be to minimize bittul torah. Why should the boys have to waste a large part of the day standing in line, waiting for turns, to take care of something that can probably be taken care of in minutes with a fax machine. However, his reasoning is more interesting than that.
Rav Edelstein is concerned that when the yeshiva boys go down to the lishkat geeyus, in one day they can ruin all their efforts of the whole zman of learning. He said, "It does not make sense that the yeshiva students with yirat shamayim can spend the whole zman being careful about shmeerat einayim - being careful what they look at (i.e. not looking at women, etc) - and then with one visit to the lishkat geeyus they can God forbid ruin everything. (source: Kikar)
I just don't get these arguments. If you think the boys' beliefs are so weak and all of the Torah learning they do is not strong enough to "protect" them from one day at a recruiting center, what is it all worth? Sheesh. The army isn't requesting the boys go down to a brothel to get their deferments. These statements really annoy me.
ReplyDeleteR.Edelstein sees the Yetzer Hora as a cosmic force that will defy and disrupt reason and logic and have a subtle influence on them. The boys will be entrapped by it and powerless.
ReplyDeleteThe Rav is not afraid that they will run away with a girl or be influenced by somebody. Rather they might see or hear something that will have an influence on their spiritual level of which they will not even be conscious. This will damage their dedication to and level of learning.
I think it's really important for the boys to go to the Lishkat HaGius so they take tiny bit of responsibility for their decision. Let them look the soldiers in the eye when they sign a refusal to serve.
ReplyDeleteBohr: Than R. Edelstein is not practicing halachic Judaism, rather some strange mystical cult that is somewhat vaguely related to Torah. It's just nareshkeit.
ReplyDeleteI saw this comment on Ynet once:
ReplyDelete"Here's how to destroy Israel:
Firstly get rid of the people's army by Implementing a law (the Tal Law) which says that religious students don't have to serve. They can protect the country by praying. Watch the number of non-serving Yeshiva students grow from 400 to tens of thousands.
Make sure that the religious schools don't teach any actual subjects, only religion. Maths, science, literature, English are all evil hiloni inventions. We don't need real jobs or to learn anything of real use! This is the Holy Land!
Make sure the religious don't work. They can live off welfare. That's fine. Not working gives them plenty of time to gender segregate their buses, riot over carparks which are open on Shabbat, riot over an Intel plant to try and force the company to leave the country and riot over some graves that don't even contain any Jewish bones."
If he is going to make it assur to go to lishkat hagiyus, then he also has to make it assur to wander more than daled amos from their neighborhood, and make is assur to go on an intercity bus (from Geula, Jerusalem to Bnei Brak, for example), etc.
ReplyDeleteIt's a political trick and an attempt to gain more power. As usual.
In fact, they should be required to go to lishkat hagiyus every quarter year to renew their exemption.
The fact that those who take so much from Israeli society, and give so little, want to even reduce the little effort it takes to acquire those massive benefits, is disgusting to me. It makes me understand the concept of "the land will vomit them out"!
Mark --
ReplyDeletewhy do you think that's not being done?
The vast majority of serious bochurim do NOT stroll around those areas regularly, if at all. As for the bus, did you not notice that there are private buses for exactly that reason?
The system, regardless of how absurd you may think it is, is internally consistent on these matters.
I can't personally understand the extreme position on shmirat eynaim but can accept that it's sincere.
ReplyDeleteBut something about having all the paperwork "done for them" seems to be too little responsibility for adults. Maybe that's because I still would like to believe that the learning-forever decision should be an individual one (with individual responsibilities) and not a blanket approach by an entire segment of society (who will have administrators filling out their paperwork).
"The system, regardless of how absurd you may think it is, is internally consistent on these matters."
ReplyDeleteUntil of course the Rosh yeshiva, Rebbe, etc. wishes to raise money from gvirim who may be on a "different" madgrega than them.
I have seen countless "kanoim" attend simachos and gatherings that they would otherwise wouldn't be caught dead at just so as to please the wealthy baal simcha.
It's a shitta od convenience not consistancy.
As part of my IDF induction I was given various aptitude tests at lishkat hagiyus. There was a haredi guy there who somehow hadn't managed to get an IDF exemption yet, and when they handed out the tests he just put his head on the desk and sobbed. I was a new oleh, full of vigor to serve in the army, and I remember looking at this guy and thinking - this is what Judaism has come to?
ReplyDeleteMaybe the Chareidi guy was sobbing because he didn't know any of the answers?
ReplyDeleteRav Gershon Edelstein shlit"a has very sound reasoning. It is nothing extraordinary to merit special mention.
ReplyDelete