Bechadrei is reporting about an incident on a mehadrin bus from Bet Shemesh to Jerusalem, though it does not say where the incident happened.
According to the report, while the bus was in transit, full of passengers, two thugs/kannoim got on the bus and walked through the bus checking the passengers. As they were walking through the back section of the bus, where the women sit on the mehadrin bus lines, they demanded a number fo the women get off the bus because they were not dressed modestly.
One woman gave in to the intimidation and got off the bus. None of the other passengers spoke up or tried to put a stop to what was going on.
This is what happens when the violence is not put down quickly, and they are allowed to continue in their ways of violence and intimidation. They begin to feel like they own the place, they make the rules.
Isn't that the whole point of the mehadrin bus? so that women should sit in the back and the men should not be looking at them? But these two thugs have the need to walk through the womens section and inspect each woman.
I can't believe that out of the entire buss full of passengers a couple guys, and the driver as well, could not get up and tell these guys to stop or even physically throw them off the bus.
It is time to put an end to the intimidation. It is time to tell these idiots they do not run the city. They are not in charge.
I agree that these Sicarii need to be controlled. There is no excuse for a Jew to attack another Jew. No matter what.
ReplyDeleteBut please answer this, what does one do with all the Israeli women who prance around half naked, with see-through dresses and clingy outfits w/o anything underneath? Tops that cover nothing. Shorts that cover nothing. This is not the way Jewish girls/women should dress. It is embarrassing to see them. There must be a way to reach them.
What does one do Neshama? GET OVER IT and MYOB.
ReplyDeleteOne convinces other people to dress modestly by convincing them by example, and by showing them how pleasant Jewish modesty is, including modest behavior in public (like men not specifically looking for immodestly dressed women, especially if they are in the "women's part of the bus" where men should not be looking, and not threatening them if we happen to see them).
ReplyDeleteAnyone who wants to reach people who do not understand modesty must work on an ongoing program to quietly and pleasantly introduce these women to Jewish modest dress. People reaching out to immodestly dressed women should be OTHER WOMEN, since the hooligans have already given a bad name to men who object to immodestly dressed women.
In any case, I assume that most women would react better to other women (rather than men) approaching them with ideas about modest dress. So I would expect that women who truly care about this, would work in clearly nonviolent and non-threatening ways to show other women the positive aspects of modest dress.
I believe that this is possible; I just caution women who would like to approach this issue, that the tension created by the hooligans makes this a difficult issue to address. So, PLEASE, do not "lose your cool", and try to calmly discuss this with other women in a manner which reflects honor upon our Holy Torah.
Advice to all 'extremists' AND to the fake moderates who are sympathetic with (and benefit from) their activity - go to Williamsburg New York City, and PLEASE try the same stunt with some of the not-so-modestly-dressed locals over there. Other possible target locations include East New York and South Bronx.
ReplyDeleteYou *might* want to reserve the ambulance in advance. Somehow I get the feeling that these 'locals' would react differently than the 7 year old Orot girls which certain 'modesty-enforcers' have pushed around lately (but of course, you won't know 100% until you try it yourself).
I dont know. but in todays world we dont have the right to force anyone.
ReplyDeleteNeshama, by your juxtaposition, no matter how much you protest otherwise, you've justified the behavior of these sexual deviants.
ReplyDeleteAnd let's be clear about that. I'll say a million times if I have to, the combination of violent behavior and obsession with "modesty" are strong indication of repressed sexual aggression. Social services should immediately investigate the home of anyone who behaves this ways. (And, frankly, they probably should be neutered!)
I really hate to write this but Israel is unwittingly moving closer and closer to the religious fundamentalism we can see in Iran or in Saudi Arabia.
ReplyDeleteI realize that many people may scoff at this thought but it is patently obvious to those of us who are "off-shore" and therefore able observe with a (more or less) dispassionate eye.
Do not misunderstand me: I am an observant Jew who observes as many of the תרי"ג מצוות as is possible. I identify with the growth and the spread of תורה in Israel and in the Diaspora.
What is abhorrent to me (and doubtless to thousands of others) is the boorish and brutish behavior described in Rafi's article.
Such activities do nothing to enhance אידישקייט and everything to bring it into disrepute.
what does one do with all the Israeli women who prance around . . .
ReplyDeletesimple. don't look.
next question
Ben Waxman said:
ReplyDelete"what does one do with all the Israeli women who prance around . . .
simple. don't look."
I think you misunderstand the issue from the charedi POV. You see the problem as how can a frum jew walk in the street. So you are suggesting a practical solution (don't look).
But the problem is not practical, it is spiritual: the charedim hold that a woman walking like this will damage spiritually the men who see her even accidentally, even if they do not look at her, and maybe even if they do not see her at all. The man may not even be aware that his ruchnius has been affected.
I understand that you look at the problem from a rationalist and logical POV. But the charedim don't.
On behalf of the local Kiddush Club, Where can we find all these half naked babes in Beit Shemesh? We have not been able to locate them?
ReplyDeleteTIA
Tanya--
ReplyDeleteThe story just appeared on national news in the U.S. (on CBS, I believe).
Thanks!!
This eerily similar to an incident that unfortunately happened in the U.S. South decades ago -- with Rosa Parks refusing to give up her seat and move to the back of a bus in Montgomery, Alabama. There now are schools (and many other things) named after her.
Richard Hanson