The story was told over during a hesped given by Rebbetzin Kanievsky's son-in-law in her memory in modiin Ilit. He told over that one time she was returning home from davening in shul and she had a group of women with her. One of the women in the group was dressed immodestly.
A fellow who was by the house saw the immodestly dressed woman and started screaming at her in front of everyone else.
The son-in-law added another tidbit saying that one time Rav Chaim was leaving the house, and in the entranceway there were a large number of women blocking his path as they were waiting for the Rebbetzin. Somebody accompanying Rav Chaim screamed out that the women should move away as they were in rav Chaim's way. The Rebbetzin, hearing that, came out and told him off saying "here we do not scream at people. We talk pleasantly to others."
Sometimes things seem obvious, like how to behave properly with other people, but they aren't always as obvious as they should be. Some people need to be reminded.
wow
ReplyDeletewhat an amazing woman
she told men in and around her house not to berate woman.
Gosh, what holiness permeates the orthodox community.
How sad. We have to tell over as a gadlus that a gadol or tzaddekis said not to publicly shame someone or yell at others - things even normal sinners like myself, or my 10 year old daughter, consider basic decency. Rafi, most people need reminding? Then we are a failure as a community.
ReplyDeleteDo not be so quick to condemn an entire community. The point of the story is to emphasize something which is always emphasized throughout the torah- that we must not only relate to God but also treat our fellow man with respect. The need to avoid creating animosity towards religious Jews apparently also needs reminding...
Deleteit says some, not most
ReplyDeleteIm wondering why these people felt so comfortable publicly shaming women in the house of and at the entryway of the 'gadol.'
ReplyDeleteNo one is hanging out in hod hasharon screaming at women and there is no need for super holy lady to come to their defense.
if I had to venture a guess I would suggest that the screamer probably thought he was protecting the gadol Rav Chaim. to protect the gadol (from being disturbed, from seeing immodesty, etc) he might have thought screaming was appropriate
ReplyDeleteSome people need to hear this, not most. How comforting!!! People raised in a decent home/school should not need to hear this, KAL VaCHOMER those raised in a frum home/yeshiva. This is VERY sad.
ReplyDeleteI'm going to hide in my hole until this all blows over. It's recockuslous.
ReplyDeleteright. exactly my point.
ReplyDeletethey live in a world where protecting an elderly frail man from seeing a women (obviously not dressed in bikinis or whatnot, I assume any women in their house is probably dressed more modestly than a hooker) is worthy of assuming that the women need to be publicly shamed/scared/attacked.
what an interesting society.
who knows what would have happened if he had seen those women. I wonder if he would've been able to control his impulses or if he would have sexually attacked them right then and there.
Way - don't be ridiculous. Nothing would have happened. That fact is irrelevant to some of the firecrackers surrounding the gedolim. Think of it like bodyguards who will roughly push away people who get too close to the person they are protecting. I am not approving the behavior, just explaining.
ReplyDelete> She said, "this is not our way. Our way is to be an influence on people by ways of pleasantness and not by shaming them."
ReplyDeleteI did not realize she was such a kofer!
(Sarcastic comment as I believe The Way's last comment was too)
Someone should really document all the Gedolim stories demonstrating basic decency.
ReplyDeleteI'm reminded of something amusing I read years ago, about the phenomenon of describing the celebrity as a "really nice guy." I think the example was, meeting Gene Simmons and since he didn't spit on you, wow, He Was Such A Nice Guy.
What greatness. They are Nice.
This is not to mock people for being decent, even Gedolim. It is just incredible that these are "stories" and that they are supposed to be special rather than typical behavior for decent people.
there is a misunderstanding going on obviously. If you read the original article, which I linked to, you will see that the story was not related (at least not by Bechadrei - I dont know what the purpose was at the memorial ceremony) to show how great she was because she acted with common decency. The purpose was to show that the way some people have been acting (recently only perhaps) is wrong. The example was by showing how such behavior was openly rejected by Rebbetzin Kanievsky
ReplyDeleteWhy is she an example, and not how my Bubby acts? Because she is Great.
ReplyDeleteThat's the whole pshat in Gedolim stories.
and you learned from your Bubby.
ReplyDeletesome of these other people, who need these stories, either they had nasty bubbies, or they didnt bother learning from them. for those people maybe a story like this is necessary
If we should influence people with pleasantness, then why did the rebetzin scream at the screamer. According to her own approach, shouldn't she have explained to him gently.
ReplyDeletegood question. I cannot imaine her screaming at anybody. I translated the word "tza'aka" to be scream. Maybe I should have said admonished?
ReplyDeleteor maybe she did scream at him, as she deemed it necessary so the others around would see that such behavior is not acceptable. I dont know.
"some of these other people, who need these stories, either they had nasty bubbies, or they didnt bother learning from them. for those people maybe a story like this is necessary "
ReplyDeleteWhy don't they write a story about my Bubby?
Do you think they could learn from that? That's the point. You have to show chaleryas the proper way to act from Great People who acted that way. That's kind of wacked, isn't it? Especially if the assumption is that these people care about Great People?
Anyway, we're going in circles, so I'm not going to keep pushing the point. :)
"The story was told over ... He told over ..."
ReplyDeleteThese are nice stories, but please tell them in English, not in "Yinglish". ("Told over" isn't English, no matter how often you hear it in yeshiva.)
Thanks.
I think the problem with these stories is in the translation. I heard them not as her screaming, or him screaming--take out the word screaming, what an awful shrill word. The man in the doorway said something to them about the way they were dressed not being mechubdik for this holy house, and the rebbetzin burst into tears at the idea of someone berating them.
ReplyDeleteThat's better.
""The story was told over ... He told over ..."
ReplyDeleteThese are nice stories, but please tell them in English, not in "Yinglish". ("Told over" isn't English, no matter how often you hear it in yeshiva.)
Thanks."
Wrong more you couldn't be.
https://www.google.com/search?q=story+told+over#sclient=psy-ab&hl=en&safe=off&source=hp&q=%22story+told+over%22&pbx=1&oq=%22story+told+over%22&aq=f&aqi=g-v1&aql=&gs_sm=e&gs_upl=17094l18632l0l18904l2l2l0l0l0l0l294l294l2-1l1l0&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_cp.,cf.osb&fp=76147c48b2eb760f&biw=1366&bih=624
This reminds me of when there was the huge protest over the Emanuel girls-school issue, and afterwards all the Chareidi papers proudly proclaimed "You see, there was no violence", as if we should be amazed that Yeshiva people wouldn't riot given the chance. Gimme a break!
ReplyDeleteits interesting that R Chaim didn't say a thing.
ReplyDeleteThe rebetzin had to come outside to tell off the men while R Chaim did what exactly?
How serious would you take it if the gadol watched you scream at a lady and did nothing but then the rebetzin came out and told you not to do that.
The lesson here is really to only scream at ladies in front of gedolim and not in front of their rebetzin