They say they have some senators who have promised to work for them on getting them refugee status, which would allow them entry into the United States.
According to the definition of refugee status, I can see how this can happen. they can make a case for being members of a persecuted social group. Whether the case will be strong enough for the US government to accept it or not remains to be seen, but it looks feasible.
That being said, I wonder what will happen when they become refugees in, let's say, New York City. Will they suddenly discover that the vast majority of their Belzer brethren in the USA already work for a living and aren't in kollels for a very long time? Will they suddenly discover that the government gives welfare, in some places more than others, but in very few places are there mass movements to live off of welfare, because you can't really. Are they going to live in refugee or DP camps? Where will over 7000 families suddenly live? Are there 7000 homes available and open for them? Will they drive the price of rentals through the roof?
They may not have to go to the army, if they move to the USA, but their lifestyles will definitely change.
Besides for that, I am not sure if they think they are making a promise or a threat. While I think all Jews should be in Israel, and it would be disappointing to lose so many Jews back to the Diaspora, it doesn't really harm me or most people personally or directly in any way. It might even bring real estate prices in Jerusalem down a bit.
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Such chutzpa, and a complete chillul Hashem. Instead of trying to convince their brethren abroad to make Aliya, in which case they would be able to get more Knesset members, and influence more, they want to be refugees in America. Let them go, for all I care. But tell me something, what will they do, if in America or wherever else they might go, there will be a draft, and they have to go to the army there. I bet you they would go there, rather than go for the Tsar Yair.
ReplyDeleteWhy be angry? If they feel that living here is not worth the price of serving in the army in order to defend the country, maybe it's better that they leave. How is that any worse than all the Jews that don't come here to begin with?
ReplyDeleteAt least it's an honest approach - assuming they really mean it, and are not using this as a threat/gimick in the engoing propaganda campaign against reducing the previous blanket draft exemption for yeshiva students. Living here comes with several price tags, including being subject to military service. People are within their rights to decide that living here is not worth that particular price. Much preferable, in my opinion, to demanding the full rights and benefits of citizenship while attempting to dictate which obligations one will be subject to, a position that weakens the authority of the state and the morale of those without the desire or political power to dictate a reduction in their own obligations.
They could sell their building here (aka belzer beis hamikdash) and buy a city with the proceeds.
ReplyDeleteI would guess the Rebbe (or a trust controlled by him) owns the shul here, and I doubt he will be buying everyone houses. Many of the hassidic rebbes are very wealthy, but you dont see them spending their money on their hassidim (not that they have to or should.. just saying dont expect it now either)
DeleteI actually do not think that is true. They all have funds for their chassidus and take very good care of their "own"
Deleteit is neither a promise nor a threat but someone being ridiculous. they have senators backing them? i'd like to see one name.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteThe United States has not been happy about American Soldiers fleeing to Canada to avoid service in Iraq or with Canada being a haven for draft dodgers during the Vietnam war. I can't see the Americans wanting the Belzer community enough to change policy to make it OK for their soldiers to desert from the army without consequences.
ReplyDeleteThere are many countries (such as Switzerland, Norway, Finland and Greece) in the world that also have a military draft. I can't see the Americans automatically considering refugee status from anyone from those countries.
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/fields/2024.html
I think you are 100% accurate with your assessment of the logistics of the move. They get a better deal here then they would any where else in the world. Even after the draft is implemented (assuming it goes through) in whatever form it takes they would still be better of here then anywhere else. Time will tell where the line between pragmatic and ideology fall.
Way to go Belz. I'm proud of you for sticking to your Hashkafos. If they do not let you practice your brand of Judaism you go to whatever country does. We are in Golus even in Israel. I understand that there needs to be an army here, and I understand the desire for sharing the burden. But sine you fear that this is a direct threat to your Yiddishkeit of course you should leave. The same way I would encourage anyone who feels they can serve Hashem better in another locale. If your ideals include Zionism, and you feel that you connect to Hashem that way, Kol Hakavod, join a religious branch of the army and G-d bless. But you must do what you feel will ultimately bring you closer to Hashem. It's how we grow here. Israel is a state. I'm happy it's here. But it is not an end unto itself. This is my overall problem with Zionism - I love Eretz Yisrael, but stop trying to sell Zionism. Sell Judaism.
ReplyDeleteThe Belzer community does go to work for the most part. The major issue here is only about the YESHIVA students. Meaning the 18-24 yr olds. They will be able to continue living their normal lifestyle there. I think that YES in order to build their Chassidic lifestyle they can NOT go to the army at that age and they would rather leave Eretz Hakodesh then live a different way.
ReplyDeleteThe Mizrachi have gone off the deep end here.
ReplyDeleteForcing non-Yeshiva bachurim to join the army, I can see from where you are coming, even though I disagree because we aren't zionists. But Yeshiva Bachurim? Supported by a so-called religious party.
Shame.
Full Disclosure: I am a Belzer and 3/4 of my family are Mizrachniks. Though, not this type.
Does this mean we get out of paying for their 90% arnona discounts ???
ReplyDelete---- Ramat Beit Shemesh resident
@anonymous 9:47 PM
ReplyDeleteIt means that you get to live in your paradise. A Jewish country without religious Jews.
Which religion do Belze Chassidim practice?
Delete@ Unknown Because there are no religious Jews who serve in the army. Yeah, right...
ReplyDeleteRafi, you do know that the trend in the US Haredim is also towards learning full-time and not going to work. Let's all stop being arrogant and saying that all Haredim work in the States and how we all want to be like those Americans.
ReplyDelete