This is just weird... a study that shows the Holocaust saved Haredi Judaism? The study shows that without the Holocaust, Haredi Judaism would have disappeared completely...
H' runs the world. Whatever His reasons for that horrific era in our history, the authors of that article need to know that this world literally exists only because of Torah Judaism continuing; the reason for creation itself. Therefore, religious Judaism would have continued any which way; otherwise, there is no world and we could not be reading or writing on this or on any subject now.
True or not, haredim received absolutely no help from Labor Zionists, quite the opposite, in fact. Just read the book Perfidy, about their plan to leave behind Hungarian Hareidim to be slaughtered. And they pretty much got away with it.
Labor Zionists also collaborating with the Nazis, leaving countless Jews behind to die.
And the Charedi leaders who ran away while leaving their followers behind with false hope also contributed. Don't read too much into this. If there was no Holocaust there would have been no WW2 and we have no idea what the world would look like today.
Which Haredi leaders? Name names. Many Rebbes were whisked away at the insistence of their followers.
Staying or leaving they suffered just like every other Jew, yet they kept their emunah.
The Kaliver Rebbe was "experimented" on. 3 guesses as to why he doesn't have a beard.
The Klausenberger Rebbe lost his family. The Bobover Rebbe (2 generations ago) incurred plenty of suffering, yet upon arriving in NY, took in all kinds of isolated and disenfranchised Jews under his wings, and provided them with what no one else had, a community.
Rav Teichtel (Munkatch) tried to get Jews to leave Europe. He himself died in Qedushath HaShem, for Tzedeq.
The list of charedi leaders who urged their followers to stay is too numerous to list so I'll just name a few. The Satmar Rebbe (saved by those evil labor Zionists BTW), The Lubavitcher Rebbe, Reb Chaim Oizer, R Aaron Kotler, just to name a few biggies... Of the above four 3 fled "at the insistence of their chasidim/talmidim of course. Because we all know that's the way charedi society works - Rebbes and Rosh Yeshivas always listen to what the little guy says.
Which invasion? The Nazis invaded Poland in September 1939 and R' Chaim Oizer died in August 1940. He never lived under the Nazis - that much is true - but even though he knew what was going on in Poland he very famously told his talmidim "she v'al ta'aseh" and don't run away,
There are some truths to both sides. By now, most informed Jews should know that the Labor Zionists played some part in the Holocaust. Deals with the Nazis were made and zionist leaders were part of it. Jews should know that everything is ordained from Above, and maybe it was the only way a state could come into being so Jews could return home as a people after 2,000 years.
H' runs the world. Whatever His reasons for that horrific era in our history, the authors of that article need to know that this world literally exists only because of Torah Judaism continuing; the reason for creation itself. Therefore, religious Judaism would have continued any which way; otherwise, there is no world and we could not be reading or writing on this or on any subject now.
ReplyDeleteWhy do you assume that "Torah Judaism" and "Charedim" have anything to do with each other? Maybe it's the exact opposite.
DeleteTrue or not, haredim received absolutely no help from Labor Zionists, quite the opposite, in fact. Just read the book Perfidy, about their plan to leave behind Hungarian Hareidim to be slaughtered. And they pretty much got away with it.
ReplyDeleteLabor Zionists also collaborating with the Nazis, leaving countless Jews behind to die.
Perfidy doesn't claim it had anything to do with religion.
DeleteReb Avigdor Miller was constantly saying this, for which he was constantly vilified in the press.
ReplyDeleteAnd the Charedi leaders who ran away while leaving their followers behind with false hope also contributed.
ReplyDeleteDon't read too much into this. If there was no Holocaust there would have been no WW2 and we have no idea what the world would look like today.
Which Haredi leaders? Name names. Many Rebbes were whisked away at the insistence of their followers.
DeleteStaying or leaving they suffered just like every other Jew, yet they kept their emunah.
The Kaliver Rebbe was "experimented" on. 3 guesses as to why he doesn't have a beard.
The Klausenberger Rebbe lost his family. The Bobover Rebbe (2 generations ago) incurred plenty of suffering, yet upon arriving in NY, took in all kinds of isolated and disenfranchised Jews under his wings, and provided them with what no one else had, a community.
Rav Teichtel (Munkatch) tried to get Jews to leave Europe. He himself died in Qedushath HaShem, for Tzedeq.
The list goes on.
I wouldn't be so cavalier, if I were you.
Labor Zionists have Jewish blood on their hands.
The list of charedi leaders who urged their followers to stay is too numerous to list so I'll just name a few. The Satmar Rebbe (saved by those evil labor Zionists BTW), The Lubavitcher Rebbe, Reb Chaim Oizer, R Aaron Kotler, just to name a few biggies... Of the above four 3 fled "at the insistence of their chasidim/talmidim of course. Because we all know that's the way charedi society works - Rebbes and Rosh Yeshivas always listen to what the little guy says.
DeleteTzvi
Well, R' Chaim Ozer died before the Nazis invaded. But the most infamous case is the Belzer Rebbe.
DeleteWhich invasion? The Nazis invaded Poland in September 1939 and R' Chaim Oizer died in August 1940. He never lived under the Nazis - that much is true - but even though he knew what was going on in Poland he very famously told his talmidim "she v'al ta'aseh" and don't run away,
DeleteThere are some truths to both sides. By now, most informed Jews should know that the Labor Zionists played some part in the Holocaust. Deals with the Nazis were made and zionist leaders were part of it. Jews should know that everything is ordained from Above, and maybe it was the only way a state could come into being so Jews could return home as a people after 2,000 years.
ReplyDelete