Dear Rafi,
I hope you are doing well and enjoying the summer.
I have 2 sons one is 13 and the
other is 16 and since they finished school I find it very difficult
getting them to go to minyan in the morning. Perhaps some of your
readership is familiar with this problem and maybe
they have some suggestions.
thoughts? anybody with advice? I think most people with teenagers have the same issues and questions...
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I have had the same question regarding my now 18 year old.
ReplyDeleteMy own experience is that we as fathers can only set by example (show that minyan is ALWAYS an important part of our own routine, even when it is inconvenient), but if in spite of that your teenager doesn't make it to minyan (or even daven), I think making a big deal out of it can do more harm than good.
Make it known that you would like them to daven regularly with a minyan, and that you are disappointed if/when they don't, but don't try to force them, that can only turn Tfilla into a negative experience and one they will drop once they are no longer under your roof.
If anyone has any better suggestions, I'm happy to hear...
I agree wiith you that one has to set an example for his kids and therefore I am very strict about getting to minyan no matter what. Hopefully in the future they will make it to minyan.
ReplyDeletethanks for responding
What do you mean by "getting them to go to minyan"? What exactly is the problem?
ReplyDeleteThey don't want to get up in the morning early/ at a fixed time? The davening is too long/fast for them?
Do they have a problem davening at home?
Thanks for raising this topic. I'm sure the comments will be very insightful.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeletewhat time is the minyan? Is it maybe to early for them (not what you think, but actually for them). If they aren't getting up for an 8:00 or 9:00, maybe encourage them to go to the 11:00 or 11:30 minyan. while not ideal, it is better than nothing and as they mature hopefully the time will change.
ReplyDeleteI will say from my personal experience, my mother yelling at me to go to minyan and even trying consequences, did not help. At some point they will just learn to live with the punishment and/or you will give in and reverse it for some other reason. It is our job as a parent to be a role model and even if we are, our kids are not us and not all kids are perfect. Daven yourself for them.
Who said you have to get them to minyan? It's not your responsibility. Forcing them or making them feel bad is counterproductive in the long run. When they get older they will go themselves hopefully. Until then let them enjoy their holiday. Ellul is coming up next week and the pressure will be on them yet again.
ReplyDeleteWhere are they holding? What is there general routine? Do they have to be noodged to pray even without a minyan?
ReplyDeleteStart small and teach them the halakha, not just customs. Pesuqei d'Zimra can be daunting, yet according to some, only 2 tehillim are necessary for a pre-prayer warm up.
Birkoth HaShahar can be more meaningful, if following the way it is described at the end of TB Berakhoth and reiterated by the Rambam.
Then Qeriyath Shema w/Berakhoth and Shemonah Esrei, and if possible something personal for Tahanun.
Not so daunting now, is it?
Depending on the kid, work on a short aliyah, so that he'll be motivated to go to a minyan and leyn, if that's his thing. :-)
I want to say thank you to all of you for answering me. I am not asking them to get up to an early minyan there is a minyan as late as 9:30am right down the block. There is a place about 15 minutes away that has minyanim at all hours but they say that is to far.
ReplyDeleteOffer to pay for a taxi then to the further minyan to show how important it is to you.
ReplyDeleteI do not think it is just about control - I say he has to go to minyan. I think there is a factor that we send our boys to yeshiva, and we expect that they will have bought into the system at some point and believe in what they are doing and not just do it because thats where we parents chose to send them.
ReplyDeletewhat they do on vacation is indicative of what they really think of it. We expect a yeshiva boy, even if he is going to learn a lot less during vacation and take a break, he will at least learn something. he will at least go to minyan. If not, are we wasting our time and their future by sending them to yeshiva now?
it seems to be somewhat of a rejection of the lifestyle we have chosen and raised the child in.
I dont think the questioner, or any of us parents, or most of us at least, are looking for perfection, but we would like to see that the kid actually believes what he spends most of his time doing.
Vacation is a time of lack of structure & our young men catch up on long needed sleep. A later minyon, a drive there, casual clothes attire accepted & a bagel stop afterwards are helping hints.
ReplyDeleteThere is no such thing as 'catch up on long needed sleep' longer than the day after a day with little sleep.
DeleteDepends who you ask. My friend's brother and chevra asked some kind of sleep expert if they can "tank up" on sleep during bein hazmanim - not the slothful sleeping all day but 12 hours which is never possible on a yeshiva schedule when they're generally sleeping too little. And the doc said yes they can store against an anticipated sleep deficit, that it's worthwhile getting an excessively normal amount of sleep in the "off season."
Deletemany adults feel the same way. short term tactics are well debated above, but think about why we're not banging down the doors to get an audience with hkb"h in a venur where are words are always heard (tfilat hatzibur tamid nishmaat)
ReplyDeleteKT
Joel Rich
one might compare it to supply and demand. if you only got a rare opportunity to talk to the king, you would prepare very well and work through your words very focused.
ReplyDeleteyet, we do it three times a day. at best one can think that if I dont get it right this time, in a few more hours I get another chance. and then shortly after that again, and then 3 more times tomorrow. etc.
for some people it kind of loses its drawing power after a while...
Getting up for tefila is much easier when kids get to sleep at a normal time.
ReplyDeleteBonus: it's probably easier to talk to a good kid so he'll sleep on time than to wake him up in the morning.
It's summer vacation and they don't want to get up early. Makes sense.
ReplyDeleteI wonder if there's a chassidish minyan nearby that davens late? Maybe they can go there instead. And, really, is it so bad if they daven at home instead of at shul?
Once they are back at yeshiva in a month, they will be forced to wake up early and go to minyan everyday.
I think there is a difference between the 13 year old and the 16 year old.
ReplyDeleteThe 13 year old - I would go for bribe: either offer to buy him a bike so he can go to the far shul, or offer him to buy a popsicle on the way home from shul.
The 16 year old - I would offer something like this: you don't have to get up at any specific time. However, at whatever time he wakes up he has to go to a shul (doesn't have to be a minyan, but has to be in a shul).
Good Luck!