A couple got married last week, on a Monday night, in Bnei Braq. On Friday night, after sheva brachos, the kalla was talking to her sisterand told her a funny story about how the ring they had ordered had been a mistake - the wrong ring had come. The store made a mistake.
Sure enough one tells the other and someone says it is a problem and the marriage might not be good. Perhaps the kalla did not have intention to accept the marriage base don this ring and the chosson did not intend to marry with this ring. The rav decided that the couple could not stay together that Friday night, as perhaps they are not married. The Shabbos morning sheva brachos could also not be performed, as there is no chosson and kalla.
On Shabbos morning, with a small group of people, he performed the wedding for them again in his office, using an old ring of hers.Weddings are not normally performed on Shabbos, but they relied on the Rama who says in great need it is possible.
It also seems that at the original wedding itself they had to do the ring ceremony twice because the witnesses had said they did not hear the "harei at" the first time so the rav made them redo it.
source: Behadrei and Kikar
1. Mazel tov! Many times over, mazel tov!
2. it would seem this couple is destined to have many challenges to overcome..
3. I would guess that they did not notice the difference in the ring until after the fact. Had they noticed before the wedding, I would think that they had accepted this ring as the ring and decided to marry with it, and it should be fine. The fact that the question is if they intended to marry with this ring surely means they only noticed after the fact.
4. did they have to start sheva brachos over again starting from Shabbos?
5. how did the rav write them a new kesuba on Shabbos morning? They could not use the original one, as the date in it is wrong. I wonder what they did about that. Without a kesuba they would not have been allowed to stay together until after shabbos when it could be written.
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It seems ridiculous to me. The woman saw the ring at the original ceremony. She accepted it. Unless there's a legitimate claim that it was not worth enough (extremely difficult, even a plastic ring is worth a minimal amount), what's the problem?
ReplyDeleteYou can get married using an apple, if you want. If it rots after the fact, does that invalidate the wedding? Who cares if the ring had to be exchanged for the one the groom actually ordered?
Perhaps the concern is that the ring was not owned by the groom. And how could they use an old ring of the Kalla's? How is giving someone their own property a valid Kedushin?
Deletemaybe they intended to return it. I was wondering about her ring, and thought maybe she gave it to him and made a kinyan and then he gave it to her. seems problematic. the whole making a kinyan on shabbos is always considered a problem
DeleteThey couldn't wait until after Shabbat?
ReplyDeleteIt seems that the main purpose of performing the kiddushin on Shabbos was to allow the sheva berachos to go forward. I surmise because they had already paid for and arranged it, and it would have been a major embarassment to tell everyone that they were (perhaps) not really married. Seems like a weak reason to permit what is generally forbidden.
ReplyDeleteIn terms of being together, this was only for the day of Shabbos. Presumably the rav wrote a new kesubah after Shabbos. So that is not really such a big matter -- so the couple just did not seclude themselves for the day until that night. (There is no problem in being in the same room as your wife, the problem is living together as man and wife. If there is a whole room full or relatives and guests, that is fine, AFAIK. Same thing happens with a chuppas niddah.)
Not clear if the Rav really thought they were not married, or this was just a kiddushin le chumrah. If the latter, that might resolve many of your questions.
it seems to me kavod habriyos, to prevent the embarrassment, lus hefsed meruba, and maybe tzorech mitzva is a pretty good reason.
Deleteperhaps it was just lchumra, but then they should have waited until after shabbos, and the bracha would be a bracha levatala. maybe they only did the harei at without any brachos
someone sent me the following by email:
ReplyDeleteJust about the same thing happened to a family in baltimore
The couple got married on thursday night and was having shabbos sheva brachos in a local shul. The kallah’s sister went to wash for motzi, and notices her wddding ring was tight and difficult to remove, something that had never occured before. She then recalled- in horror, that her sister- the kallah- had given her the ring to hold before the wedding, and to make sure she would not lose it, she put it on her finger. She gave the chosson the wrong ring, so the chassan was mekadesh her sister with a ring that was not his
They immediately ran to the rav with a number of shaylos
Are they married
Can they go home together that night since they cannot write a new kesubah and cannot have kiddushin on shabbos
Can they make sheva brachos
The rav said that they are married, they can have sheva brachos- but after shabbos, make a new kesubah.