Last week Rav Dov Lior was detained/arrested for a brief amount of time for questioning as part of the investigation into the book "Torat HaMelech" that is being called hateful and inciting to violence.
This morning Rav Yaakov Yosef was also detained/arrested for a brief amount of time for questioning regarding the same issue. Rav Yosef was only detained for a few minutes, asked a couple questions quickly and then released.
Is it possible the real reason to detain/arrest these rabbonim was to create a precedent for the future? It seems to have been completely unnecessary in this instance, but if all they wanted was to create a precedence, perhaps it makes sense...
Just to clarify, according the the authorities, they were both subpoenaed numerous times and they ignored the calls. THEN they were "arrested" - brought in for questioning forcefully since they ignored the calls. This seems to be a campaign by the hard core right wing dati leumi crowd to delegitimize the state of Israel leadership, ever since the disengagement.
ReplyDeleteWhen was the last time a left wing professor who openly showed support for the enemies of the State was called in by the police to explain his beliefs?
ReplyDeleteWhen was the last time a left wing professor who openly showed support for the enemies of the State incited an assassination of a prime minister? If that happens, you'll see a change
ReplyDeleteSlingshot: Why do the authorities need to call someone in for questioning over writing a paragraph long "haskama" for a book?
ReplyDeleteThe haskama is easily readable as is the book. Does that really require a massive police investigation?
What could the police possibly want to know that they couldn't figureout from the haskama? (I understand that Rav Yosef's interrogation took 3 minutes...)
When was the last time a left wing professor who openly showed support for the enemies of the State incited an assassination of a prime minister? If that happens, you'll see a change
ReplyDeleteUmm, how about calling for physical injury of Jews? Or does that not count?
Muqata - an honor, since i am a reader of your blog as well.
ReplyDeletewho cares how long or if you don't know what questions they wanted to ask. The police felt they had a reason to subpoena and the rabbis ignored. The police didn't want to do what they did. The Rabbis wanted it...good press in their quest to de-legitimize the authorities.
Anon - you said
ReplyDelete"Umm, how about calling for physical injury of Jews? Or does that not count?"
It does not count unless their is a precedent the hyperbole caused physical injury. there isn't. With the rabbis calling Rabin a rodef and that he is chayav misa - there is a precedent.
the police were wrong for doing this (not because they are rabbis but because it is a stupid fight to pick over nothing worthwhile), but once they chose to go this route i think the rabbis should have taken the high road and gone in to answer the questions
ReplyDeleteSlingshot: Apparently, all the police asked Rov Yosef was his name, family name and if he indeed wrote the haskama for the book.
ReplyDeleteIf that IS indeed the case, then its harassment and has absolutely nothing to do with the actual "allegations"
And hey, if you are reader you can comment by me as well :)
(Always an honor to interact with readers)
Slingshot:
ReplyDelete"This seems to be a campaign ... to delegitimize the state of Israel leadership, ever since the disengagement."
a. True, the right wing does not hold the government in any esteem, but the only campaign being waged is by the left wing against the right.
b. The disengagement was SIX years ago. Please give examples of a continuous six year campaign.
Bottom line - the left incites the right, and the right is condemned for incitement. Don't try to misconstrue the reality.
Would you not consider the possibility that the police - and the office of the attorney genral - are not adverse to using their legal authority to intimidate people? If you are interested, I'd be happy to offer precedents.
ReplyDeleteDovid Landesman
For all the comments out there...lets be clear:
ReplyDeletethere is a criminal investigation for a possible incitement of violence with religion as the facade - via this new book. inciting violence under the guise of theoretical / intellectual religion has happened before in Israel when rabbis called Rabin a rodef and chayav misa and one (albeit nutter) responded and killed Rabin. Nowadays, authorities MUST take incitement seriously from a politically motivated religious sect that has a history of "successfully" inciting violence. Now we have 2 prominent rabbis approving and backing a book that has the potential to incite violence. The rabbis are the key to making this book more successful and more spread throughout the community. I think it makes perfect sense - under this criminal investigation - to assume that these rabbis may have evidence relevant to the investigation. Questions like, do you think it will cause violent behavior? how many copies of the book will be sold? Where? What is the goal of the book? why did you feel a need to back this book? etc.
As in all democracies, a witness that is believed to potentially have useful information for an ongoing criminal investigation is OBLIGATED to come forward. If the witness does not, the court can subpoena him. If he ignores the subpoena, the police can arrest him, in order to have the information for the record. This is standard. I understand that police often in Israel intimidate to get what they want; i don't see proof of that here. It seems that the police called them for questioning a number of times, and they ignored.
As for me saying that the hard core right wing dati leumi crowd has had a campaign since the disengagement of Gush Katif to delegitimize the state of Israel leadership - there are many examples, including encouraging soldiers to refuse orders, to refuse to recognize the legitimacy of the courts after arrests from protests (most notably was a teenage girl that was in jail for a while, since she refused to give her name or something, and she won an award at right wing political dinner that I was at), the growing trend of yeshiva gavoha in dati leumi world, largely avoiding longer combat army service as in hesder, and they are the only group that consistently breaks the law regarding building in the settlements. So I am not sure what you mean by "the left incites the right and the right is condemned for incitement."
slingshot:
ReplyDeleteGimme a break. The Gemara, not to mention the Torah itself is replete with clear cut requirements of killing goyim under numerous circumstances. The fact that well known rabbis wrote haskamos for a halachic book of this nature is no more flashy than giving a gemara shiur on the topic. Do you suggest that that should also be banned? What else should we lob out of our religion simply because it doesn't shtim with the left wing politics of the government/police? Parshas Lech Lecha perhaps?
Your few and far between examples hardly a campaign makes. First of all, seiruv pekuda has nothing to do with the disengagement of 2005, as it has been on the right wing agenda well before the (most recent) disengagement. The example of the right wing under-age girl is a single example, where, by the way, she made the decision by herself, albeit supported after the fact by her parents and teachers. And the fact that the right are the ones who build the "illegal" outposts/settlements - are you calling that a campaign to delegitimize the government? That has nothing to do with the government and everything to do with the right of the Jewish people to our land.
Sling - last I counted, many more have been r"l wounded or killed with the help of incitement from anti-Jewish sources. It seems odd that none of those have ever been investigated.
ReplyDelete