Chief Rabbi Rav Yitzchak Yosef is on a roll. Just last week he said how it is completely unnecessary to learn math and science and one should only learn Torah, which is fair enough for a Haredi rabbi to say and not overly unexpected, but then he added by pointing to himself as proof saying look at me, I did ok just learning Torah.
As if every person in kollel (not named "Yosef") can become the Chief Rabbi and make a decent living despite not learning math and science.
Now Rav Yosef said in response to a question posed by Jews from Tunisia about making aliyah to Israel that they should only make aliyah if they will move to a Haredi area - if they are going to move to other areas then better not to bother - don't make aliyah, but stay in Tunisia. Coming to Israel and living in Hertzliya or other secular areas, don't come as you will get ruined.
source: Srugim (based on an article in Kikar that I did not see)
I am sure he knows the gemara better than I do about it being better to live in Israel in a place completely devoid of Torah that to live outside of Israel in a place of Torah. That isnt how we do things today, so I guess that is only a theoretical.
Personally I would try to say things a little differently. Like, if they are interested in aliyah to Israel and are already asking about it, to encourage them to come and live in a religious area without disparaging everyone else.
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Well-said, Rafi
ReplyDeleteRav Avigdor Miller on Moving To Eretz Yisroel or Chicago
ReplyDeletePosted on December 5, 2017 by Toras Avigdor
Q:
What should be our attitude towards moving to Eretz Yisroel? Should we be preparing for making עליה to Israel?
A:
What should be our attitude towards preparing to move to Eretz Yisroel? Or to Israel? Well, there’s a big difference between those two.
We should prepare every day to go Eretz Yisroel. Every day you should be ready because when Moshiach comes you won’t have much time to prepare. You should know that the Chofetz Chaim was busy preparing. He wrote seforim on קדשים and the עבודת בית המקדש, the laws that will be in place when we rebuild the בית המקדש, so that we should know what to do when we get there. So this type of preparation surely should be made. You should be preparing all the time for that great day when Moshiach comes.
Now, if you’re thinking about preparing to go there soon yourself, without Moshiach, then it depends on your circumstances. If you’re going to go live in a very Orthodox neighborhood, which will be better than your present environment, then there’s no reason why you shouldn’t improve yourself. Why not? However if you’re just going there, to Eretz Yisrael, because it’s Israel, to settle anyplace, then it doesn’t pay. Because you can move to places in Israel that are just like Chicago, like the bad neighborhoods in Chicago. If you move to Tel-Aviv, to certain neighborhoods in Tel-Aviv, and many other places in the State of Israel, then it’s no different than moving to Chicago. So you have to know where you want to move. But if you have a good place to move to, where it will improve you, then why not? As long as you have parnasa, why not?
TAPE # 9
Well, that's *a* point of view. It's just not the Torah view.
DeleteClearly Rabbi Yosef has never set foot in a "secular" part of Israel. Which is handy, as there are very few such places.
ReplyDeleteOf course Nachum the blog commentor has a more autehntic Torah view than Rav Avigor Miller, z'l or Rav Yitzchak Yosef, shlita.
ReplyDeleteIt's not my view, it's Chazal's. Deal with it.
DeleteCome to think, it's God's view. He's the One who, after all, told Avraham to move to Canaan. Newsflash: There were no charedi neighborhoods in the time of Avraham, or Yehoshua, or Zerubavel, or the Ramban, or the Mechaber, or the Vilna Gaon, or... Quite the opposite, in fact.
Having a more authentic Torah view than Haredim is not difficult. It's on par with a woman having a more authentic view of menstruation than men.
DeleteI guess that sums up the difference between our 2 chief Rabbis. Rav Yitzhak Yosef says that moving to a secular neighborhood (whatever that is) may ruin you. Rav David Lau grew up in Netanya and Tel Aviv and has lived for the past 20 years in Modi'in, where he raised his children.
ReplyDeleteLooks like one sees himself as the Chief Rabbi of the Haredi World, and the other sees himself as the Chief rabbi of Israel.
1. Yes, better to live in dangerous Tunisia than in safe Israel. (rhetorical)
ReplyDelete2. Don't learn math or science. Then how can he be a dayan? In fact, he's the Chief Dayan. Remember the case of RCK, who didn't even know what a debit card card was, in relation to a Din Torah.
3. Rav David Lau (at least before he became Rav haRashi) did miluim, reportedly in army intelligence.
Oh, and he was Rav of Modiin, not exactly a very religious town.
3B. And Har Nof, where Rav Yosef lived (does he still live there?), was originally a mixed community when his father moved there.
Of course, his father grew up in Shmuel haNavi, but he won't publicly point that out. Even though everything by him is 'his father'.
I think the point may be that if these Tunisian families are traditional but not otherwise strong in their yiddishkite then if they find themselves in a secular town their level of frumkite will flounder also they may end up sending their kids to local chiloni schools. If the children end up irreligious was it then really a good thing moving to Israel?
ReplyDeleteThis is probably based on the context of those he is speaking to, a predominantly sefardi community, where many of them slip terribly spiritually after aliya.
ReplyDeleteSlip terribly:
DeleteOr France or USA or Great Neck or ...
As if Tunisia or Morocco or Iran is better.
If AM YISROEL is an OHR LEGOLAH and mission is to bring Torah to communities, it would make sense to join cities, moshavim, kehillas that need strengthening in Torah observances. BH there are many of these types of groups bringing proper chinuch, Torah classes, and a SHabbos environment to predominately Secular cities.
ReplyDeleteSounds like the kind of psak that lots of Rabbis in Europe gave to their congregations... nuff said.
ReplyDelete