Featured Post
Free The Hostages! Bring Them Home!
(this is a featured post and will stay at the top for the foreseeable future.. scroll down for new posts) -------------------------------...
Sep 21, 2025
waiting for netz
This morning I davened in a minyan that was early and around the sunrise time, but was not listed officially as a "netz minyan"
The fellow who led the services had tried to get people to go up and lead but nobody wanted to and eventually he himself went and led them.
He got to the shmoneh esrei several minutes before honetz (aka netz/vatikin) and one person was getting visibly nervous. He even went to the chazzan and tried to get him to wait until the official sunrise time, but the chazzan brushed him off. He went back to his seat and was visibly nervous and even started gesticulating to people to wait, it is too early, etc. The services went on despite his anxiety.
After the services were over he went over to the chazzan and told him off for being too early and it is a netz minyan and so close to netz he could have waited 3 or 4 minutes, etc.
This is a minyan made up of mostly random people who happen to be there for whatever reason, along with a few regulars of people who work in the building or nearby. This chazzan is one of the regulars, and the anxious guy is not.
When Mr Anxious went over to complain, the chazzan responded that it is not a netz minyan but a "workers minyan" and it is perfectly fine to not wait. The anxious guy was arguing about that a bit. I was standing right behind them and joined in for a moment saying his complaining is inappropriate - what's done is done and he didnt violate anything even if netz is preferred. Also, the shulchan aruch when talking about davening at netz only says the "vatikin" would try to daven close to honetz. Today we have people who are concerned about getting the time right down to the millisecond by use of atomic clocks and whatnot, but there is no such requirement and people davening early were never so concerned about that level of accuracy until recent generations.
I heard a rav once say that davening before netz is just as bdieved as davening after netz.
What do you think - who was right in this situation - the chazzan or the anxious person? I get the idea that you are so close to netz anyway so why not wait a few minutes, but also people dont want to wait - they have places to go, things to do. They are just going to stand around for 3, 4 or 5 minutes doing nothing? Making them wait is the definition of tircha dtzibbura. I personally think his criticism and behavior was very out of place. He could have waited for honetz if he wanted to (and I think he did) but he should not have gesticulated and criticized and shown his anxiety.
What do you think - who was right in this situation - the chazzan or the anxious person? I get the idea that you are so close to netz anyway so why not wait a few minutes, but also people dont want to wait - they have places to go, things to do. They are just going to stand around for 3, 4 or 5 minutes doing nothing? Making them wait is the definition of tircha dtzibbura. I personally think his criticism and behavior was very out of place. He could have waited for honetz if he wanted to (and I think he did) but he should not have gesticulated and criticized and shown his anxiety.
By the way, as a I left I checked the sign that has the schedule of services and nowhere on the sign does it say it is a netz minyan.
------------------------------------------------------
Reach thousands of readers with your ad by advertising on Life in Israel
Reach thousands of readers with your ad by advertising on Life in Israel
------------------------------------------------------
Subscribe to:
Post Comments (Atom)
You handled the situation very well and put in your understanding of the situation in a clear manner however, I will say this. If the person who was just chilling and upset, wanted to lead, then he should have. Kind of like put up or shut up. Also, understanding the Halacha and telling you it to the person like you did was well done. All that being said, In all of the different Shuls I’ve ever davened in, every gabbi always says “this is the worst job, no one should have to put up with what I do”. Chag Samayach and a Good G’Benched year!
ReplyDeleteBtw, I tried to log in above but it keeps putting me back to anonymous. -LFD
ReplyDeleteAnd as a PS- the stalagmite caves near Beit Shemesh are so cool! Was in Israel for a bit and went there.
they are. havent been there in many years. maybe it is time to go back!
Delete