Dec 3, 2013
New extremist hechsher causing family fights
Just a week ago it was announced that a new hechsher was formed - a break-off of the Eida hechsher. The hechsher was formed by a group of "sikrikim" - extremists for whom the Eida is not extreme enough. The first product to run the new hechsher "Ichud Ha'Y'rei'im" is a private label grape juice.
Bechadrei has some more details of who is behind the hechsher, and that the new hechsher is very quickly causing fights and breaking up families. The founder is a former chassid of the Mishkenos HaRoim chassidut named Nachum Hanun and now associated with the sikrikim. Some eaders of the Eida recently went to the Mishkenos HaRoim rebbe to try to persuade him to try to influence Hanun to put an end to his hechsher. The rebbe had recently visited the winery under the hechsher and performed the tithing of the wine.
The delegation argued that the new hechsher will harm the education of their children - for decades they have educated their families to eat nothing but the Eida hechsher. When Belz opened their own hechsher, they all fought against it as it was seen to be opened specifically against the Eida hechsher. Now, this new hechsher is doing the same and it too must be opposed.
The rebbe's response was that he was told this is a private initiative of some people who wanted to make grape juice in a more machmir way, they do everything themselves and are present for the harvesting. Meaning, they are not going into the commercial hechsher business but just doing something private for themselves, so it is ok.
I wonder in what way they were being "more machmir" when making grape juice...
Anyways, Bechadrei also adds that a certain family in Bet Shemesh (where else would this happen?) there was a Hannukah party with all the branches of the family in attendance. One member brought some grape juice with the new hechsher. Sure enough it caused a fight and another family member brought out products with the hechsher of Belz and other products with the hechsher of the Rabbanut, saying once we are breaking the rules, why not go all the way! It seems to have turned ugly because the report says the father eventually had to shut down the party and send everyone home.
Who knows what really happened at the party, and who cares? They are clearly not worried about kashrut but about protecting the Eida's level of control and authority. The problem was that a competing hechsher is being opened, rather than that hechsher is not good because of x, y or z.
Anyways, as said elsewhere, anybody who wants, especially if they know them, has the right to trust their kashrut, new hechsher or not. Kashrut works on the concept of eid echad neeman b'issurim. If you trust them, b'teyavon. If you have no idea who they are and don't have any specific trust of them, then their hechsher is worthless. Since at this point they are not covering any products except a private label grape juice that almost nobody outside their opwn group will run into, it is not really an issue yet. When they will eventually try to expand into a money-making business and try to sign up companies and products for supervision, then their lack of authority and lack of transparency will be much more significant.
Bechadrei has some more details of who is behind the hechsher, and that the new hechsher is very quickly causing fights and breaking up families. The founder is a former chassid of the Mishkenos HaRoim chassidut named Nachum Hanun and now associated with the sikrikim. Some eaders of the Eida recently went to the Mishkenos HaRoim rebbe to try to persuade him to try to influence Hanun to put an end to his hechsher. The rebbe had recently visited the winery under the hechsher and performed the tithing of the wine.
The delegation argued that the new hechsher will harm the education of their children - for decades they have educated their families to eat nothing but the Eida hechsher. When Belz opened their own hechsher, they all fought against it as it was seen to be opened specifically against the Eida hechsher. Now, this new hechsher is doing the same and it too must be opposed.
The rebbe's response was that he was told this is a private initiative of some people who wanted to make grape juice in a more machmir way, they do everything themselves and are present for the harvesting. Meaning, they are not going into the commercial hechsher business but just doing something private for themselves, so it is ok.
I wonder in what way they were being "more machmir" when making grape juice...
Anyways, Bechadrei also adds that a certain family in Bet Shemesh (where else would this happen?) there was a Hannukah party with all the branches of the family in attendance. One member brought some grape juice with the new hechsher. Sure enough it caused a fight and another family member brought out products with the hechsher of Belz and other products with the hechsher of the Rabbanut, saying once we are breaking the rules, why not go all the way! It seems to have turned ugly because the report says the father eventually had to shut down the party and send everyone home.
Who knows what really happened at the party, and who cares? They are clearly not worried about kashrut but about protecting the Eida's level of control and authority. The problem was that a competing hechsher is being opened, rather than that hechsher is not good because of x, y or z.
Anyways, as said elsewhere, anybody who wants, especially if they know them, has the right to trust their kashrut, new hechsher or not. Kashrut works on the concept of eid echad neeman b'issurim. If you trust them, b'teyavon. If you have no idea who they are and don't have any specific trust of them, then their hechsher is worthless. Since at this point they are not covering any products except a private label grape juice that almost nobody outside their opwn group will run into, it is not really an issue yet. When they will eventually try to expand into a money-making business and try to sign up companies and products for supervision, then their lack of authority and lack of transparency will be much more significant.
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what in the world was one of them doing with rabbinate kosher food? does he keep some spare ham around (just in case) as well?
ReplyDeleteExactly what I was thinking. I thought it was only a rumour that all Haredim kept a secret stash of competing badatz food at home for emergencies like this.
DeleteI wouldn't eat or drink anything from that family---when money and religion mix everything becomes toxic
ReplyDelete"Kashrut works on the concept of eid echad neeman b'issurim."
ReplyDeleteYou surely know that it is more complicated than that. For several reasons.
First, in a commercial setting, the manufacturer is relying on the certifying rabbi or organization to say it is kosher. The manufacturer may not be religious or even Jewish.
Second, there are many disputes in halakha about kashrus. To take one common example in America, some are makpid on Chalav Yisrael, others rely on R. Moshe's teshuvas and drink milk (and eat dairy products) which R. Moshe calls chalav ha companies. If I know hasgacha A relies on R. Moshe's teshuvas and hasgacha B does not, then if I am careful to only drink chalav yisroel, I will not rely on hasgacha A, at least not for dairy products.
Third, because of the commercial nature of hasgachos, unfortunately some are more careful than others. Dealing with kashrus on an industrial level simply requires more sophistication and knowledge than a balabuste needs to run a kosher home.
None of these mean that the rabbonim involved are not honest people whose houses I might eat in, but when it comes to buying a product in the supermarket to take home, there are additional issues that come into play.
1. the concept of eid echad does not just apply to the proprietor. it also applies to the mashgiach . the mashgiach is also an eid echad, and if you rely on the mashgiach it is base don that concept. no different.
Delete2.. I agree. if you know the standards of a kashrut organization on any given issue, you can decide for yourself if that standards meets your personal decision on that matter or not.
3. agreed. and therefore what? if they go into that level of certification they will have to acquire the appropriate expertise.
4. Most people are not growing their own fruits and vegetables and processing them into other foods, nor raising cattle and chickens to do everything themselves. Even if you eat in someones home and trust them, you are in essence trusting that they bought their food with hechshers that supervise properly and know what they are doing and meet your standards, and that they then took those foods and cooked them properly also meeting your standards. Trusting someone in his home is not really simpler than the supermarket, because it includes the supermarket - you are just letting your friend make that decision for you.
Rafi, I think you misunderstand what I am saying. Eid echad neeman be issurim is certainly part of kashrus. It is just not the whole of it, particularly when you are dealing with an industrialized food supply.
DeleteAs for the specific points:
1. Yes and no. True, the masgiach's word is believed because of eid echad. But how does he know that the (non-religious or non-Jewish) proprietor is following through? Is he a masgiach temidi? A yotsei ve nichnas? Relying on chazakos? These issues themselves are halakhic and subject to machlokes.
3. Not all hasgachos have the appropriate expertise.
4. You are correct, which simply proves my point again that the issue is more complex than eid echad.
They're getting ready for Shmitta, the worst couple of years for seeing the hatred and one-upmanship between those who claim to be Torah observant Jews.
ReplyDelete