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Nov 28, 2011
Validity Of Lakewood Gittin Being Discussed
Looking for Lakewood people who might know more information about this tidbit..
Bechadrei reported a few days ago that a group of dayanim from Lakewood and Boro Park met to discuss an issue that could have serious ramifications on divorces in Lakewood. The issue is that when a get is written, the town is identified by the closest river or body of water. Lakewood, is surrounded by 8 lakes and rivers (I don't see that many in the map below, but let's just say that perhaps I don't know how far out is still considered a lake or river connected to Lakewood, or maybe some are not shown n the map I chose).
The problem is that it is not clear what is considered the closest to the town for identification purposes. A number of the lakes are equidistant from the town, and that presents a problem as to which should be used as the source of identification.
The problem with choosing the wrong lake by which to identify the town is that using the wrong body of water invalidates the get. The ramifications of a new decision as to which lake should be used in the get is that it could invalidate all gittin already written in the past with the wrong lake. That would invalidate divorces and possibly even create situations of mamzerus.
According to the report, a decision has not yet been arrived at in the first issue. Only after a decision is arrived at regarding which lake is the correct identifier, will the second issue, that of gittin already written, be addressed.
View Larger Map
So, any Lakewood people out there that might know more about this situation?
Bechadrei reported a few days ago that a group of dayanim from Lakewood and Boro Park met to discuss an issue that could have serious ramifications on divorces in Lakewood. The issue is that when a get is written, the town is identified by the closest river or body of water. Lakewood, is surrounded by 8 lakes and rivers (I don't see that many in the map below, but let's just say that perhaps I don't know how far out is still considered a lake or river connected to Lakewood, or maybe some are not shown n the map I chose).
The problem is that it is not clear what is considered the closest to the town for identification purposes. A number of the lakes are equidistant from the town, and that presents a problem as to which should be used as the source of identification.
The problem with choosing the wrong lake by which to identify the town is that using the wrong body of water invalidates the get. The ramifications of a new decision as to which lake should be used in the get is that it could invalidate all gittin already written in the past with the wrong lake. That would invalidate divorces and possibly even create situations of mamzerus.
According to the report, a decision has not yet been arrived at in the first issue. Only after a decision is arrived at regarding which lake is the correct identifier, will the second issue, that of gittin already written, be addressed.
View Larger Map
So, any Lakewood people out there that might know more about this situation?
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I can't see any way that they could declare the gittin already written in Lakewood to be invalid without causing major social upheaval in the town.
ReplyDeleteThe Wolf
You might want to read about it at: Yudel's Take
ReplyDeleteAs with last week's story of the busing you are getting half a picture here. There is an established way gittin are written in Lakewood which goes according to the psak of Rav Elyashiv. A rogue, power-grabing individual who claims to have a "beis din" in town decided to make an issue.
ReplyDeleteHe went to these rabbonim in Borough Park who listened to what he had to say. Once they found out what he was all about they threw him and his so called "concerns" out on their head and closed the case.
End of story. All gittin in Lakewood are continuing as always.
By the way I left the last comment. I am from Lakewood and spoke to rabbonim about this issue.
ReplyDeleteit seemed obvious somethnig was missing from the report. thats why I asked if anybody from lakewood can clarify.
ReplyDeletethank you
i know fron the inside what is going on. there is no question of passeling the gittin that were written till now, but there is a very serious question going forward. the rabbanim decided that anyone who does write gittin in lakewood should STOP writing due to the problems and the rabbanim will meet again in a couple of weeks to finalise what should be done going forward.
ReplyDeleteas to the anonymous commenter who claims to have spoken to the rabbanim in lakewood, he obviously is being fed false information by "rabbanim" who are covering up for the tremendous blunder that was made up until today.
the sha'ala was, to the best of my knowledge, realised by the beis din tzedek of lakewood whose dayanim went to rav elyashiv with the problem. he told them exactly what to do and added that even if the yeshiva dont like it this is what has to be done.
the beis din apparently has a video of there meeting with rav elyashiv where he also refutes the claim that what was done till now was with his guidance.
"establishment" are terrorising the websites who carry this story, so dont say you weren't warned.
I read somewhere, dont remember on which site (maybe Yudel Shane), that some sites were pressured to take the story down...
ReplyDeleteAfter reading Yudel's, two questions immediately come to mind:
ReplyDelete1 Why are there mostly chassidish dayanim at the BP meeting? Is Lakewood so chassidish these days?
2. Is this a later chapter in the Lakewood beis din fight RNS mentions at http://www.rationalistjudaism.com/2011/10/miscellanous-notes.html
see this site that has full report.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.jdn.co.il/news/14249
to shmilda
ReplyDeleteit seems, unfortunately perhaps, that it is mostly chasidishe who grow into becoming rabbanim and dayanim.
BMG and old time Lakewood establishment seem to have come to the end of their reign of communism.it looks like a new guard is setting in. i wish them the best of luck. communism never served judaisms best interests and competition is very healthy for everyone.
To Shmilda, It is all chasidish because no one from Lakewood was invited to the meeting. There are many choshuver litvishe rabbonim in Lakewood.
ReplyDelete"Beis Din Tzedek" of Lakewood isn't recognized by anyone in town. We all know it's a scam. If you have your video show it.
Lkwder
Lkwder
ReplyDeletewhy are you attacking the messenger?
do they have a point or do they not?
???????????
I updated this topic at www.rationalistjudaism.com/2011/11miscellanious-notes.html (if it got through the moderation).
ReplyDelete