This law proposal has been bouncing around for that past year and a half, but it looks like it finally might be on track to come to a conclusion.

MK Yariv Levin (Likud Beyteynu) proposed a law by which it will be illegal for anyone to marry under the age of 18. As of right now the law allows for people to marry at the age of 17, and the courts can give special permission to people younger who wish to get married, on a case by case basis. Marriage at a younger age without first obtaining permission form the courts is a criminal offense that can draw up to two years in prison.

According to the new law, the courts will only be able to give special permission for marriage to people 16 years old and older. Another factor in this law proposal is that the various relevant parties will all have to report to the Ministerial committee formed about enforcement of the law - the Justice Ministry will have to report how many requests for exceptions have been brought to the court, how many kids were given permission, why, how many were prosecuted for marrying without permission, etc.

The Ministerial committee has now approved the law for further readings, after it passed its initial reading in the previous Knesset.

MK Uri Maklev (UTJ) requested that the proposal add the Beis Din Hagadol as another valid court for granting permission for marriage at a younger age. Maklev also protested the law saying it hurts the communities that customarily have their youth marry at a young age (specifically Breslav).



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Kolbotek is an Israeli television show that does consumer affairs and investigative reporting and produces dramatic exposes. They just did a show on the meats producer, Zoglovek. Last year they were behind the expose on the cruelty to animals being perpetrated in the Adom Adom slaughterhouse.

Zoglovek, one of Israel's largest processed meats producers, is now the subject of another Kolbotek expose. Kolbotek shows some horrible violations of cruelty to animals when transporting chickens and turkeys to the slaughterhouse..

Here is the show. I cringed plenty when seeing their process and what it does to the chickens.




As a result of this expose, Chief Rabbi Dovid Lau that besides for the troubling behavior and sights, the expose raises some serious halachic issues as to the kashrut of the meats produced by Zoglovek. Many of these chickens can have internal bruises and injuries, or even be nearly dead when taken to slaughter... in addition to the Rabbanut needing to protest and act against this behavior, we also must act to create a sense of deterrence, so that other companies will understand that this is not just a humanitarian issue of the first degree, but also an issue of kashrut and halacha. Therefore, Rabbi Lau said, the Rabbanut will debate the possibility of canceling the kashrut of Zoglovek, or taking action in any other way against Zoglovek and any other factory operating improperly..

Zoglovek responded to Rabbi Lau's statement saying that it is surprised to hear such a thing considering the slaughterhouse is under the complete supervision of the Rabbanut, 24 hours a day, and the quote from rabbi Lau must be mistaken.
(source: NRG)

If the place is under the constant supervision of the Rabbanut, how do they allow such things to happen? Is Rabbi Lau's surprise and harsh reaction just a cover-up? How could the Rabbanut not know (even if Rabbi Lau did not personally know)? Heads (and not just chicken heads) should roll at Zoglovek, but they should also roll at the Rabbanut.

Rabbi Lau should conduct an investigation to see which mashgichim and supervisors were responsible for the relevant slaughterhouses, trucks and coops, and they should all be investigated to see how they could let this go on. Either the Rabbanut was not watching, or they were part of it. Either way, they are just as much at fault as Zoglovek.



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You can be sure that whenever there is news about missing Israeli navigator Ron Arad, I will mention it here.

Whether dead or alive, it has been looking pretty hopeless for us ever finding out what happened to Arad. The news about him has really dried up in recent years. Israel even announced recently that there are now almost no efforts to continue looking for Arad, due to the lack of any new information over such a long period of time...

Ynet reported yesterday that a Kuwaiti newspaper mentioned that new information about Ron Arad is about to come to light in the coming weeks. I looked for the original article, and actually found it (no easy task)!!! The newspaper that issued the report is called Al-Seyassah, and the report can be found here: http://www.al-seyassah.com/AtricleView/tabid/59/smid/438/ArticleID/267831/reftab/76/Default.aspx

If you read Arabic, this is what it says:

تطورات مفاجئة تكشف قريباً عن مصير الديبلوماسيين الإيرانيين الأربعة ورون آراد بعد 30 عاماً على اختفائهم في لبنان

بعد مرور نحو ثلاثين عاماً على اختفائهم في لبنان
تطورات مفاجئة تكشف قريباً عن مصير الديبلوماسيين الإيرانيين الأربعة ورون آراد

"السياسة" - خاص:

كشفت مصادر استخباراتية غربية لـ"السياسة" عن تطورات مفاجئة ستحصل خلال الأسابيع القليلة المقبلة من شأنها أن تفك طلاسم لغزين استخباريين بعد ما يزيد على ربع قرن من الغموض الذي لفهما.
وقالت المصادر إن أول اللغزين هو اختفاء الايرانيين الاربعة في بيروت منذ العام 1982, وهم محسن الموسوي القائم بالأعمال الإيراني في بيروت آنذاك وأحمد متوسليان قائد "الحرس الثوري" في لبنان آنذاك, وتقي رستغار مقدم سائق السفارة الإيرانية, وكاظم إخوان الصحافي في وكالة الأنباء الايرانية الرسمية "ارنا".
أما اللغز الثاني فيتعلق بمصير الطيار الاسرائيلي رون آراد الذي أسقطت طائرته فوق الأجواء اللبنانية العام 1986 ومازل مصيره مجهولاً حتى اليوم.
وأكدت المصادر أنه سيتم التوصل إلى كشف اللغزين بشكل لا يقبل الشك أو التأويل للمرة الأولى, من خلال تحديد ما جرى مع المفقودين الخمسة منذ اختفائهم أو مكان وجودهم الحالي في ما إذا كانوا أحياء, أو مكان دفنهم في ما إذا كانوا أمواتاً.
وأوضحت المصادر, التي رفضت الإفصاح في هذه المرحلة عن مصير الخمسة, ان التقدم الملحوظ في حل اللغزين جاء إثر معلومات جديدة وقيمة وصلت إلى أحد أجهزة الاستخبارات الغربية بشأن مصير الطيار الإسرائيلي رون آراد, مشيرة إلى أن المفاجأة كانت في أن هذه المعلومات مصدرها أحد أفراد عائلة محسن الموسوي أحد المفقودين الإيرانيين, وتحديداً من شقيقه حسين الموسوي الذي كان في دائرة أحد القلائل في إيران الذين يعرفون مصير الطيار الإسرائيلي, حيث شغل في الفترة التي تزامنت مع سقوط الطيار في أيدي الميليشيات الشيعية آنذاك, منصب مستشار وزير الخارجية الايراني لشؤون الشرق الاوسط والعالم العربي.
وبحسب المصادر, فإن المعلومات التي بحوزة حسين الموسوي, الذي يشغل حالياً منصب مدير مركز البحوث العلمية والدراسات الستراتيجية في الشرق الاوسط, وصلت إلى الجهات الاستخباراتية الغربية عن طريق عدد من الوسطاء, وتم التأكد من صحتها بعد فحصها بشكل معمق, رغم علامات الاستفهام التي دارت بشأنها, في ظل الخشية من أن تكون رغبة موسوي بمعرفة مصير شقيقه, دفعته لتمرير معلومات غير دقيقة أو غير مؤكدة.
وأضافت المصادر أن جهاز استخبارات غربياً يعتزم المساهمة بمعلومات حساسة تتعلق بمصير الإيرانيين الاربعة, حصل عليها إثر نشاط استخباراتي مكثف كان يقوم به في لبنان في الثمانينات من القرن الماضي, ولم يتمكن حتى الآن من استخدامها أو الإفصاح عنها لأسباب تتعلق بحماية الطريقة والأشخاص الذين حصل بواسطتهم على هذه المعلومات, إلا أن وفاة أحد أهم مصادر هذا الجهاز في لبنان أخيراً, أتاحت المجال لاستخدام هذه المعلومات.
وأكدت المصادر أن التقارب بين إيران والدول الغربية يشجع على إمكانية التوصل إلى صفقة في هذا الموضوع, حيث تُدرس الآن الطريقة المثلى لعرض هذا الموضوع على الإيرانيين والإسرائيليين, بشكل يضمن إظهار الطرفين بأنهما رابحان من هذه الصفقة.

If you do not read Arabic and need it translated, here it is after pumping it through Google Translate:


As almost always, Google Translate does a horrible job of producing a well-translated readable article... the point of it though is easily understood - surprising new information will soon be coming to light. His fate, if true, is tied to the Iranians. The report is about 4 Iranian diplomats who went missing in 1982. This information supposedly comes from the brother of one of the missing Iranian agents - this brother has served as Foreign Minister of Iran and is considered one of the few people who actually knew information about Arad when he was FM.

Hopefully it is true, and hopefully we will soon find out what happened to Ron Arad.






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Somebody just sent this to me. I have no idea where WND got it from, I have no idea if it is accurate and/or reliable, but it is a fascinating read of Rav Yehuda HaChassids prediction about Israel...

WND EXCLUSIVE

12TH-CENTURY RABBI PREDICTED ISRAEL'S FUTURE

Now his prophecies about return of Messiah are being studied
Published: 11/14/2012 at 7:56 PM

JERUSALEM – Judah Ben Samuel was a legendary and prolific German rabbi of the 12th century
who made some astonishing and specific predictions about the future of Jerusalem and Israel that
came true.

Judah Ben Samuel, also known as Judah he-Hasid (Judah the Pious), lived and worked from the
end of the 12th century until the beginning of the 13th century in Regensburg, authoring a number of
books in the German language.

Ludwig Schneider of Israel Today magazine has translated some of his work into English over the
last few years, including “The Book of the Pious – Sefer Hasidim” and the “Book of Calculations –
Sefer Gematriyot.”

Following the Christian crusades to the Holy Land, between 1096-1270, a regular correspondence
developed between the Jews in the Holy Land and the Christian West. Thus, for example, the rabbis
in Worms and Regensburg in Germany knew that Saladin’s Ayyubids had been ruling in the Holy
Land since 1187.

At this time, Judah Ben Samuel published the results of his biblical calculations (Gematria) and
astrological observations and summarized as follows: “When the Ottomans (Turks) – who were
already a power to be reckoned with on the Bosporus in the time of Judah Ben Samuel – conquer
Jerusalem they will rule over Jerusalem for eight jubilees. Afterwards Jerusalem will become noman’s land for one jubilee, and then in the ninth jubilee it will once again come back into the possession of the Jewish nation – which would signify the beginning of the Messianic end time.”

One jubilee is 50 years (Leviticus 25). It is the 50th year after seven times seven years, the year in
which each person should regain ownership of his or her land. Ben Samuel’s calculations were
purely theoretical; there was absolutely no sign at that time of their being fulfilled. He himself was not
able to experience their fulfillment, for it was only 300 years after his death that the first of his
predictions were to come true.

The Mamluks, who had been reigning in Jerusalem since 1250, were conquered in 1517 by the
Ottoman Turks. They remained for eight jubilees (8 x 50 = 400 years), that is to say they were in
Jerusalem for 400 years. Exactly 400 years later, in 1917, the Ottoman Turks were conquered by the
British. The League of Nations conferred the Mandate for the Holy Land and Jerusalem to the
British. Thus, from 1917, under international law, Jerusalem was no-man’s land.

Then, when Israel captured Jerusalem in the Six Day War of 1967, exactly one jubilee (50 years)
after 1917, Jerusalem reverted to Jewish-Israeli ownership once again. Thereby, according to the
prophecies of Judah Ben Samuel, the Messianic End Times began.

Many scholars have studied and made reference to Judah Ben Samuel’s writings in an effort to
understand how he reached his conclusions. Among those referencing Ben Samuel were Rabbi
Isaac Ben Solomon Luria, a mystic dealing with the messianic world (Jerusalem, 1531-1572, Safed);
Joseph Solomon Delmegido (1591 Candia – 1655 Prague), a mathematician and astronomer
(“Mazref le-Chochma”), Azulai I (1724-1806), a famed bibliographer; Samuel David Luzzatto (1800-1865), a Bible scholar; historian Heinrich Graetz (1817-1891); and Torah scholar Jacob Epstein
(1925-1993).

The secret of how Judah the Pious arrived at such accurate predictions has less to do with the
actual calculations than it does with the fact that he had consecrated his life to God. His pupils Rabbi
Isaac ben Moses (Vienna), Rabbi Baruch ben Samuel (Mainz) and Rabbi Simcha (Speyer) testify
that Ben Samuel was a model of abstinence and selflessness and was awaiting with a burning
desire the coming of the Messiah.

Ben Samuel was often called “Light of Israel.” Even bishops came to him for advice. If anyone asked
him where his wisdom came from he would answer, “The prophet Elijah, who will precede the
Messiah, appeared to me and revealed many things to me and emphasized that the precondition for
answered prayer is that it is fueled by enthusiasm and joy for the greatness and holiness of God.”

But to recap the astonishing predictions: In AD 1217 this scholarly and pious rabbi prophesied that
the Ottoman Turks would rule over the holy city of Jerusalem for eight Jubilees. Now, keep in mind,
he made this prediction 300 years before the Ottoman Turks seized control of Jerusalem in 1517. If
indeed 1217 and 1517 were jubilee years as Judah Ben Samuel believed, then his prophecy was
exactly right, because exactly 400 years after the Turks took control of Jerusalem they were driven
out of the city and the holy land in 1917 by the Allied forces under the command of General George
Allenby – on Hanukkah, by the way.

But it gets more interesting still.

The rabbi also prophesied that during the ninth Jubilee Jerusalem would be a “no-man’s land.” This
is exactly what happened from 1917 to 1967, due to the fact that the Holy Land was placed under
British Mandate in 1917 by the League of Nations and literally “belonged” to no nation.
Even after Israel’s war of independence in 1948-49, Jerusalem was still divided by a strip of land
running right through the heart of the city, with Jordan controlling the eastern part of the city and
Israel controlling the western part of the city. That strip of land was considered and even called “noman’s land” by both the Israelis and the Jordanians.

It was not until the Six Day War in 1967 when the entire West Bank of the Holy Land was conquered
by the Israeli army that the whole city of Jerusalem passed back into the possession of Israel. So
once again the prophecy made by the rabbi 750 years previously was fulfilled to the letter.

It certainly would be significant if both 1917 and 1967 were Jubilee years, considering the
significance of what happened in Jerusalem on those years. But it gets even more interesting,
because Judah Ben Samuel also prophesied that during the 10th Jubilee Jerusalem would be under
the control of the Jews and the Messianic “end times” would begin. If he’s right, the 10th Jubilee
began in 1967 and will be concluded in 2017.

“The Bible should be our standard for prophecy and interpretation of prophetic events,” said Joseph
Farah, editor and founder of WND, upon learning of Judah Ben Samuel’s predictions in Israel
Today. “But one cannot ignore what this 12th-century rabbi said and wrote. It’s well-documented.
And I applaud Israel Today for bringing it to light. The implications of these predictions is staggering
to say the least.”

Read more at http://www.wnd.com/2012/11/12th-century-rabbi-predicted-israels-future/#i8gfrFLDfGqGifre.99


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photo taken from Joshua Moesch's Facebook page

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This picture is making the rounds today.. it is a picture of Finance Minister Yair Lapid speaking at the Prime Minister's Conference for Equality of Minorities.. It points to how short Yair Lapid actually is, and how he makes himself appear taller, and therefore more dominant and powerful, by standing at podiums (he has done this before) on a stool.



Minister of Economic Affairs Naftali Bennet, also known as Lapid's "brother", has his back. On Bennet's Facebook page he criticizes the people who have been spreading this around laughing and criticizing Lapid because of it. Bennet described some of Lapid's recent efforts and accomplishments, and said that attacking him for something so irrelevant hurts Israel's ability to make significant changes (though he does not say how).




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The quest to legalize marijuana continue (and I support it). While efforts have so far been focused on easing the process of procuring medical marijuana, MK Tamar Zandberg (Meretz) has now proposed a bill that would legalize marijuana for non-medical use as well, with limitations.

Zandberg's proposal is that having and using small amounts of marijuana would not be a crime. The law would define different levels for usage, distribution and sale, with different levels of punishment for each.

Zadnberg says her proposal will bring the law closer to the actual reality - The use of marijuana, around the world and in Israel, is recognizing that using marijuana is normal and does not cause damage. Recently a number of MKs have admitted to smoking marijuana, and according to surveys it is part of the normal life of many people. Statistics she quotes say that at least 275,000 Israeli adults have used marijuana within the last year.

Zandberg also says that Israel spends about 690 million NIS per yearin attempts to enforce the law prohibiting marijuana. Despite that large expense, it seems most criminal cases opened as a result have been charging people with the use or possession of marijuana and only a small minority with the crime of dealing. Zandberg wants the law changed to fit more wit the current reality.
(source: Ynet)

I would compare Zandberg's logic to the halachic logic by which something is prohibited because it is not the normal way of doing things. Once it becomes normal, the prohibition falls off. So, for a while people are breaking the law, but at a certain point the tipping point is hit and it is no longer considered prohibited, or against the custom. A good example might be the prohibition of a man to wear womens clothing (and vice versa). A man might wear a ring, and that would be (according to some) transgressing the prohibition. After enough men wear the ring despite transgression the prohibition, it is no longer prohibited, as it becomes no longer considered womens clothing.

That is Zandberg's logic, in part. First of all, the enforcement is unrealistic and not in tune with the priorities - enforcing against small users rather than the dealers. But more so, the current reality says that so many people are using it, it is no longer realistic to consider it prohibited.

The only question I have about it is, and I might only have the question because the details are not specified in the article, she wants to make it legal for people to use, but it will still be illegal for people to deal - so how will people get it to be able to use it?







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The only occupation that I am aware of is in South Tel Aviv...

  -- Deputy Minister in the PMO Ofer Akunis, while touring the region of Binyamin.


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With the new "thought police" it is no longer enough for rabbonim to say who to vote for and expect the vast majority of followers to listen. In order to quash some rebellion in the ranks - growing numbers of people who decide to make their own decisions for whom to vote - they have to come up with new methods of ensuring obedience. Particularly upsetting was the new political party founded by supporters of Rav Shmuel Auerbach, and the many people who voted for them.

Avreichim in kollels are now going to be required to sign a form, or risk being thrown out of the kollel, by which they attest to regretting opposing the gedolim and not listening to their words, committing to listening in the future, and to not being a subscriber to the HaPeles newspaper...




A group of rabbonim created the form and text, and it seems they showed it to Rav Shteinman and Rav Kanievsky who debated whether to approve such a tactic or not, and supposedly decided to approve it...
(sources: Bechadrei, Kikar, Ladaat)

Minister of Education Rabbi Shai Piron responded to the news of this new requirement in kollel, and to complaints by affected avreichim, by instructing the department of yeshivot in the Ministry of Education to act immediately against any kollels that suspend or relieve students based on political affiliation, being that it is illegal.

Any kollel found to be violating the law and throwing out students for not signing this form (or I guess for signing it but buying HaPeles anyway and voting for alternate haredi parties) will be deprived of their subsidies. Piron said he will not allow askanim to turn educational institutions into their political fields.. The haredi public deserves, just like every other sector, educational institutions that are professional and equitable, and whoever cannot come to terms with that will have his funding rejected.
(source: Ladaat)

And, nothing to do with this specifically, but just to show how important Rav Shteinman considers it to vote for UTJ, he related a story of the Chazon Ish - the Chazon Ish considered it so important that he sent his wife in a taxi to vote, and he also gave her his teudat zehut so that she would vote for him as well. Nowadays that would not work, as each person can only vote for himself or herself, and one cannot have someone else vote for them.




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Why is it that whenever some religious services get funded, it is treated as if they are stealing from the rest of the country?

Unfortunately there is no separation of shul and state (or mosque/church and state, either) in Israel, to even the slightest degree. That means that just like the State of Israel funds and provides the services and needs of every community, it does so for religious services as well. It funds the theater, the arts, the sciences, sports, academic and everything else, and it also funds religious services - and it is no less legitimate just because it is for religion.

According to the census from two years ago, about 33% of Israelis are religious, and an additional 25% consider themselves "traditional". That means 58% of the citizens of Israel regularly make use of religious services, to some degree or another. And among the remaining 42% of citizens who define themselves as secular or not-religious, they too make use of religious services, albeit at a less frequent rate and sometimes even just because they have no other reasonable choice. Basically, religious services are being provided to a significant majority of the citizens of Israel.

Yet, whenever money is sent the way of religious services there is an outcry asking why they get money yet x, y or z is told there is not enough money for that...Somebody came up with a new idea and is trying to pass a law to make it part of the system. Give new fathers a few days off of work - a few days of paternity leave. I think it is a great idea, but the State, if it wants to do this, has to find funding for it - it was not part of the original budget, as it is only being proposed now, after the budget has already been passed. So, the funding is not currently available, and if it becomes law, the State will have to find a source of funding for it. As great an idea as it is, as important as it might be, it does not give us enough reason to delegitimize the funding of religious services. This service might be necessary, but those services are as well, and those already have a source of funding.

Minister Yair Lapid recently said that the new paternity leave idea that has been proposed is great, but nobody has shown from where the money will come to fund it, and he therefore opposed the bill. Globes is complaining that he opposed that bill due to lack of funding, and then two days later Lapid found money for religious services. Lapid sent 52 million NIS to fund religious services:  14 million for the "Jewish Identity Administration" (whatever that is), and an additional 37.8 million NIS to the Ministry of Religious Affairs for various needs. The crime! How dare he provide for the already-budgeted needs of a majority of the country!

With the budgets for religious services already stripped to the minimum, perhaps those proposing great ideas should look elsewhere for the money, and let the religious citizens of Israel get some of their religious needs funded. Maybe they should propose cutting the sports budget or the arts. There are a lot of important needs provided by the State, and until Israel will move for a separation of shul and state, it cannot be expected to cut religious services every time something else needs money.





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Minister of Finance Yair Lapid and his Yesh Atid faction seem to have been persuaded to cancel the intended budget cut targeting foreign yeshiva students.

This became a big deal because it was seen to be hurting the yeshiva industry in something that is a relatively minor budget item that has a major effect - many of the yeshiva students end up staying in Israel long-term, eventually making aliyah, and even those who do not generate a lot of tourism money - they bring foreign currency, rent apartments, buy food, tour, have parents come to visit and spend money here, etc.

While it might not be so crucial for most yeshivot, as it is really a small amount of money per student, for some yeshivot, and the Mir Yeshiva is mentioned as a prime example, it is a lot of money just because of the number of students affected.

So Yesh Atid and Yair Lapid have agreed to cancel the budget cut! That is good news. Anyways it is a small amount of money, and it does a lot for bringing foreign currency into Israel and promotes aliyah.

But Yesh Atid says we are not there just yet. They are agreeing to cancel the budget cut, but that cancellation is dependent on some conditions. Yeshivot qualifying for these monies would be obligated to teach a detailed course in Zionism and civics, that would also include visits to army bases (I saw somewhere that Haredi yeshivot would visit the Nahal Haredi bases), heritage sites, and participate in conferences on various topics of Zionism.

So, we may soon be seeing Zionism 101 as part of the curriculum in yeshivas like the Mir, and their presence on army bases might become fairly common... or maybe they will prefer to forgo the money rather than be forced to teach Zionism..


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There has been a US check cashing crisis of sorts in Israel for the past few weeks. There has been very little written about it, and I really have not been able to understand the problem based on the little that has been written. This explains it briefly and offers you a solution..

A guest post by John Benporath

In Israel, the banks charge high fees for converting your currency to Israeli shekels. They make their profit by charging retail rates that are less than competitive – often much lower than the exchange rates that you see listed - and charging additional conversion fees on top.

So what should you do if you are holding an American dollar check in your hand? Firstly, you should be wary of any service that offers to process your check electronically. The bank account on which the check is drawn will be debited by the money changer, and you will have limited control over the transaction, unlike cashing a check for the exact amount that is written on the face of the check, which involves no risk.

You need to choose a reliable money changer who declares all fees and charges up front and offers you a rate that is competitive against the interbank Shaar HaMischar wholesale rate as the independent reference point (see the Montrose Change website for an explanation of the different exchange rates), so that you know exactly what your check is worth. You may decide to hold it for a week and see if the rate improves – no one can predict which way the shekel is moving against the dollar these days - but that choice is yours.



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On Monday, MK Yisroel Eichler (UTJ) spoke about the Bet Shemesh elections and the subsequent claims of fraud being anti-haredi..



Yesterday, on Tuesday, MK Rabbi Dov Lipman (Yesh Atid) spoke about the Bet Shemesh elections and demanded new elections..



and here is a clip from last night's protest in Bet Shemesh with about 5000 people in the Neimi Mall plaza outside of the Irya offices.. also attended by a number of MKs..







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I love the president's name!





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I have no idea if this is connected to the recent elections or not, but after a break of several months without a word or flyer against "chardakim", the campaign has gone live again.

Why do I wonder if the campaign was connected to the elections? Because the campaign went silent during the months leading up to elections, and now with elections behind us the campaign is back.

Interestingly enough, there have been accusations that the figure behind the chardak campaign was a publicist and Haredi PR person named Nuchem Barzasoky - the same fellow that ran the campaign for mayor of Bet Shemesh Moshe Abutbol. Barzosky has denied the claim, and has threatened to sue the person that revealed the information (or made it up), though I am not aware of any actual lawsuit. If it was Barzosky, it makes sense that there was a quiet period, as he was busy running an electoral campaign, and only now does he have time to get back to the chardak campaign. Furthermore, the chardak campaign could have hurt Abutbol and Haredi parties, as it might have driven potential voters away from supporting Haredi parties who have not condemned the campaign, have not done anything to stop it, or done anything to reassure haredi soldiers that they are not rejected by the mainstream haredim.

As far as I know, there is no proof it is Barzosky behind the chardak campaign.

I find it difficult to believe, also because of the timing - if he stopped and took a break because of the election campaign, how did he get this new item out so soon after elections - it takes time to prepare these things?. As well, why not wait until after everything quiets down, as the elections in Bet Shemesh might just not yet be over?

Regardless of the long-standing question of who is behind the campaign, the chardak campaign is back with a "comic book" called "Chardubim".

It is a despicable campaign that has in the past led to violence against haredi soldiers. It sows seeds of hatred in people, and especially in children. And it is not just against haredi soldiers as int he past - now it also portrays the secular community as blood-thirsty people.






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A guest post by David Bar-Cohn




Let me start with the famous introduction from the Dickens novel which inspired the above title:

“It was the best of times, it was the worst of times, it was the age of wisdom, it was the age of foolishness, it was the epoch of belief, it was the epoch of incredulity, it was the season of Light, it was the season of Darkness, it was the spring of hope, it was the winter of despair, we had everything before us, we had nothing before us, we were all going direct to Heaven, we were all going direct the other way...”

When I read this, I feel like Dickens must have secretly/prophetically been referring to Beit Shemesh. Here we have so many capable, intelligent people among our ranks, and yet so much utter foolishness – dangerous and destructive foolishness. We have a great deal of fervent “belief,” and at the same time a great deal of cynicism as to where that belief is taking us. We are blessed with unprecedented opportunity – far beyond our previous generations’ wildest imaginations, and yet many of us are gripped with pessimism and uncertainty as to what the future holds for this city, indeed for Israel as a whole.

While day-to-day life here in Beit Shemesh may be agreeable, even quite wonderful in fact, many of us are deeply disturbed at the palpable and formidable darkness we witnessed first-hand throughout the campaign and election process. We are greatly troubled by the heightened sense of animosity and distrust we perceive between the Haredi and non-Haredi communities, where it’s hard to see much of any light at the end of the tunnel. We lament the fact that Beit Shemesh has emerged as a sort of “ground zero” in the turf-battle over religion in Israel, where each side sees itself as fighting for its own survival – if not physical survival then the survival of its ideals. And we dread that as long as that is the case, every election in this city will be cast as a "mortal battle."

Now, in the event that the current investigation of last week’s elections should turn up sufficient fraud as to render the election invalid, the next step presumably would be to hold another election. That of course means going through part of the gut-wrenching campaign process all over again – the posters, the rallies, the hate-filled invective, etc. At best we will have a final winner, and half the city will rejoice while the other half lives in doubt as to whether its needs will be represented in the foreseeable future. Whoever wins the distrust and resentment will remain. Yes, I recognize that this is life in the grown-up world of politics and elections. But just the same I thought I would offer up an alternative.

The idea is this: Instead of holding a second election (should it come to that), perhaps we could embark on a five-year experiment: A Beit Shemesh with two mayors, “co-mayors,” serving simultaneously – one representing the Haredi sector and the other representing the non-Haredi sector. Executive decision-making would be undertaken together, through a process of mediation and compromise.

Now I want to state straight away – I called this a “tale” of two mayors because I am fully aware that it may strike the reader as pure fantasy, something that could never happen “in a million years.” There is no precedent for it. Both sides are gravely embittered. Neither (I would venture to guess) has much of any willingness to share power with the other. And the very idea of the “co-leadership” model (even in much smaller-scale projects) is often known to be tall on “high ideals” and short on actual effective leadership. I get all that.

But I think we are in a situation now where a little idealism “lishma” (for its own sake) isn’t a bad thing either. We find ourselves presently neck-deep in profound mutual distrust – a good deal of which has certainly been earned. No one mayor currently has the right to say, “Trust me.” That is far too much to ask. What I believe we need now is to find a way where both communities can feel secure, where both feel they are being adequately represented – without requiring anyone to “trust.” Only when both sides experience a significant measure of security can we – slowly, over time – begin to build trust. And each community having a mayor to vie for its interests may just hold a hope of doing that.

There is of course another suggestion for two mayors – the “two-city solution,” i.e. dividing Beit Shemesh from Ramat Beit Shemesh. Whether or not this is a realistic solution (economically, geographically, logistically, etc.) I honestly don’t know. But we need to be aware of what that idea represents, what message it sends. It is a move toward two Israels – Haredi Israel and non-Haredi Israel. I admit this may well be taking place on its own, but to go ahead and formally split Beit Shemesh in two would arguably be seen as an “official statement” to that effect – a writ of separation, citing irreconcilable differences. We can no longer live together. Haredi and non-Haredi societies cannot coexist... And that is something I for one am not yet ready to concede. I would sooner try something else first – even if it is radical and unprecedented – before taking a step along the road to mutual isolation.

Having a single Beit Shemesh with two mayors would send precisely the opposite message. It’s a shake-up, a game-changer. It’s a statement – to ourselves and to the world – that we haven’t given up. We’re ready to do things differently. We’re ready to share power, not grab power. We’re ready to work together, not against each other. We’re ready to be stop being an example of what not to do, how not to be, and to instead do something totally out-of-the-box, something extraordinary, something which makes the world look at us, at Beit Shemesh (yes, Beit Shemesh of all places!), and say: “Wow, there might actually be hope for the human race.”

This city of ours is a crucible, a testing ground of sorts for issues of coexistence facing the society as a whole. The way we handle things, here and now, has the capacity to affect life down the line, and well beyond our borders. Yes, we may feel burdened, weighed down, by the problems we face. But we also have in our hands a unique opportunity to effect far-reaching positive change. We have a responsibility not merely to ourselves but also to all of Israel, and arguably to the rest of the world.

That is why I’ve put the two-mayor idea on the table. I think we ought to consider another way. And even if it can’t be done, even if the election results stand – even if it remains just a “tale” – that’s okay. Because I believe it’s a tale worth telling.


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A lot of people get married with their personal rabbi officiating the wedding. Generally the rabbis know to insist or encourage the couple to register their upcoming marriage with the Rabbanut (or via one of the Badatz organizations). Sometimes they don't. The Rabbanut is coming after them!

The Ministry of Religious Affairs is preparing a law proposal by which it will be illegal for any rabbi to perform a private wedding without having the wedding first reported to the Rabbanut - and any rabbi who does will be at risk of a punishment of up to two years of jail time!

What's so bad about not involving the Rabbanut?

It seems there are many cases in which not reporting ends up causing distress to people involved, at some point or another. For example, if a man refuses to give a get to his wife, he generally cannot get married to another woman. If, however, his marriage is not listed with the Rabbanut, they have no way of preventing that. From the other perspective, an unwitting woman could also get married without reporting, and in some situations it could lead to violations of "eishet ish" - marrying a woman who is already married. Another common situation is when one of the parties is a convert - without proper registration, who is going to check that the entire conversion process was completed properly?

If the marriage is not reported, the proper background checks are not being done. The officiating rabbi could be creating an immediate problem, marrying off someone who should not be getting married, or he might be casing a problem later in which the dissolution of the marriage will also not be recorded which can cause heartache later.
(source: Kikar, NRG)



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It is difficult for me to define the results of the elections - we went together with the Labor and the Green parties and we thought the unity would bring better results... politics is not mathematics, and one plus one is not necessarily two..
The mandate we lost went to the parties of the youth: Hit'Orerut, and Rachel Azaria, against whom we did not know how to compete properly. The ideological situation that obligates us to prioritize the issues of coexistence and dividing the city between east and west,and our strong position in the fight against the haredization of the city chased away votes to the more compromising parties.. it is true we too could have been quiet about these things, but our faith is above all else..


  -- Jerusalem City Councilman Peppe Alou (Meretz), expressing his disappointment in having achieved only 2 seats in the recent municipal elections



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Bet Shemesh is all over the news again. So far it is just at a national level, as far as I can tell - I haven't seen it mentioned in the international press yet - but still, Bet Shemesh's fame precedes it once again. And this time it is not for violence, but for alleged election fraud after a heated electoral season.

I am calling now Bet Shemesh the greatest third-world city in a first-world country. It seems, if the reports are true, that the banana republic is right here (minus the actual bananas) and there is no need to look all the way to Guatemala to find it... It would be even more ironic if one of our malls had a Banana Republic shop in it...

After a heated election season, it looked like it would all finally be over. Elections were finally here. One would be declared the mayor, and the other would just be a regular city councilman. All we had to do is wait and see which went which way, and then we could all get back to our normal lives.

Alas, it was not meant to be. The incumbent, Moshe Abutbol, eked out what looked like a narrow victory by Wednesday morning, with the vote differential between him and Eli Cohen standing at less than 1000 votes after the final counting. With the differential so small, many people felt like the elections were actually stolen and not fair, after numerous reports of fraud became known, the biggest of which, perhaps, was the arrest of 8 people in an apartment where over 200 identity cards were discovered with disguises for the purpose of voting in the name of other people.

That was by no means the entire story - it might just be the tip of the iceberg. They found 200 - how many of them had already been used to vote with? how many more were there that had not been found at all? Then there were the stories of massive amounts of votes in ballot boxes that somebody ensured were disqualified due to marking the ballots in a way that invalidates them, along with plenty of other stories.

An appeal is being prepared for filing to investigate the elections for fraud and to demand some sort of rectification of the situation - a re-vote, a recount, invalidate certain boxes, validate other boxes. The pressure is mounting. there has already been one massive protest with a convoy of cars snaking its way through the city until it reached the plaza outside the municipal offices at which its members joined a rally calling for a solution. Another rally is planned for tonight, also outside the municipal offices (by the Neimi Mall) at 7 PM. The protest rally is protesting alleged election fraud and demanding an investigation and a reasonable solution.

The media has jumped on thsi story. Bet Shemesh always seems to provide good fodder for them. Politicians have now joined on, with Deputy Defense Minister Danny Danon promising an appearance at the protest rally, Deputy Transportation Minister Tzippi Hotovely publicizing a letter calling for new elections in Bet Shemesh

Here are some of the articles about the post-election balagan:
Nana, Globes, NRG, NRG, Jewish Press, NRG, JPost, Bechadrei, JPost, YWN, among many others including many journalists posting to their Facebook pages their thoughts, and one even contacted the Minister of INterior and suggested he establish a committee to look into the claims, and of course the radio and television shows have been all over this.....

We put the 'fun' in dysfunctional, it seems. Whatever happens, hopefully one day soon we will be able to get back to our normal, quiet, lives. And, hopefully one day we will once again be all over the news, local, national and international, but for good things, as being a model for coexistence perhaps, or some other positive situation.




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interview with my favorite haredi feminist Ruth Colian.. Colian is now suing the State to stop funding haredi parties until they include women in their parties..






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worth a watch, though the audio quality is not great..





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1. haredi libertarian

2. what's behind Amir Peretz's attack on Habayit Hayehudi?

3. Is there a commandment to always be happy? No!

4. sights from the Judean desert

5. President Obama chooses cheesecake over cholent

6. a distracted tree killer

7. three rabbis and a sheet with a hole in it

8. which country is more anti-jewish - Qatar or Israel?

9. seeking peace, or immunity?

10. finding purpose in the land of Israel

11. wisdom from a Venice Beach vagabond 



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This letter was written by someone in RBS. Initially he sent it out to some of his neighbors, and then he spread it further asking for it to be distributed widely around RBS. Following the [original] letter is a response. This letter generated a lot of debate, though I do not know how wide of a reach in RBS it obtained.

Personally I feel that the original letter expresses a nice sentiment. Unfortunately, it is premised on incorrect information and its proposed solutions are completely one-sided, pointing outward rather than inward, making the nice sentiments seem sanctimonious rather than worthy. Nobody likes to be preached to...

I'll start off with a song about the topic of the post...



below is an open letter that i felt needed to be written regarding the current situation in bet shemesh after the mayoral elections. please feel free to distribute it widely in our neighborhood.

dear friends,

imagine the following hypothetical scenario:
a school is built just outside of an english speaking dati leumi neighborhood, on the edge of a charedi neighborhood. mothers of children in the school come walking down the block in their usual manner of dress to drop off and pick up their children. some are wearing skirts down to the ground, but others are not even covering their knees. some wear only long sleeves but others do not cover their elbows or wear shirts that are open well below the collar bone. some (being married women) cover every hair, while others merely put on a symbolic kerchief, or don't cover their hair at all. now, being that the school is next door to buildings inhabited by traditional charedim, these mothers become the object of allot of attention. they are observed by charedi women who have been raised from a very young age to believe that it is undignified, even debasing to go out of one's home without stockings let alone a married woman parading in public with her hair uncovered. these women are shocked and horrified, in their eyes these mothers are not just debasing themselves, but are offending jewish women everywhere. it is very much how most of us would feel if an institution would open in our neighborhood that would attract women from tel aviv in their beach attire. (it makes no difference whether or not that is a fair comparison, that is how they feel about it in my hypothetical scenario, as well as in real life). these women speak to their friends, who in turn speak to still more friends, and soon it is the talk of the town. soon women are turning to their husbands and demanding that something be done about this offensive behavior. most of the husbands decline to get involved. they explain to their wives and daughters that even though we live in eretz yisroel, we are still in galus. we can't fix everything or make the world run as we feel it should. but a few, perhaps those who are in unstable marriages, or those who have hot headed personalities, decide to go out and demonstrate against this school being in their neighborhood. soon there is goading and counter goading, spitting on the ground in front of people, and all types of unpleasantness.

the situation is about to get out of hand, when suddenly a community activist, well respected in th DL community steps forward and says:
"friends, neighbors, countrymen" (my apologies to Shakespeare) "we are facing a difficult situation. our neighbors, who are after all, fellow jews and therefore our brothers, are offended by our behavior. they think that by our mode of dress we are insulting all jewish women including them. they are wrong, we have every right to dress however we like, but it still behooves us to understand where they are coming from. it is only an insignificant number who demonstrate against us but there are many more who share their complaint and therefore don't condemn the excesses of the tiny minority. friends, let us take advantage of this opportunity to teach our children a lesson more important than anything that they will learn in this school. sure, by strict justice we are right and the law supports us as well. we were promised this school building even before their neighborhood was built. none the less, we always preach to our children that we believe in ahavat chinum (baseless love), that does not mean loving jews that we identify with and feel comfortable with. it means loving jews whom we disagree with, find annoying, and to some extent are stepping on our toes. that's why it's called BASELESS love. let us go beyond the letter of the law. the mayor has offered us an equivalent building on the other side of our neighborhood. once we are sure that he can deliver on his promise, let us be mvater and turn this building over to our brothers , who at the moment are our opponents".
except for a few hot heads, most people could see the value in what the community activist was saying. if the suffering of this exile was brought upon us by sinat chinum, and the way to correct that is through ahavat chinum, then surely hashem will not test us to see if we can get along with those who don't offend us, rather the test will be can we see the legitimacy of other jews (even if only from their point of view) who do offend us.

and so it was, the dati leumi community decided to practice ahavat chinum, and while not suffering any great harm, they decided to forgo their "rights". of course this made quite an impression in the charedi community. soon they were inviting each other over to their homes for shabbat (after all the two neighborhoods where only across the street from each other), old grudges were forgotten, and a new generation of children was being raised in both neighborhoods, that truly understood what ahavat chinum means, and how to see the best in another jew.

except that this scenario is not so hypothetical. hashem tested the residents of BS/RBS with something very similar not so long ago. who knows, if we had passed the test, perhaps that would have brought us to the tipping point, and our long bitter golus would have come to an end. BS would have gone down in history forever as the city that brought the geula. but we didn't pass the test, we failed terribly. there is blame enough to go around for every one, but i am writing this letter to my fellow english speaking olim, so i will focus on what we can do. we can't change others, but we can change how we relate to them.

now hashem has given us a make up test after we failed that first one. the make up test was the elections that just went by. i remember the last election 5 years ago when moshe abutbul and shalom lerner acted like such perfect gentlemen towards each other (yes there was some nastiness from over zealous supporters here and there, but the candidates themselves treated each other with respect). this time was different, there are allot of reasons for this, but none of them are an excuse. we the english speaking olim, who do not carry the burden of grudges (many of them legitimate, but grudges none the less), that go back to the 1930's at least, need to lead by example. we must demonstrate ahavat chinum. some of us supported abutbul for ideological reasons, others for practical reasons. likewise, some of us supported cohen for ideological reasons, others for practical reasons. whatever our individual views, we must remember that our neighbors are still upstanding people even if they're misguided!

the elections are over, let it go. crazy rumors and gross exaggerations are swirling around the community. police raid an apartment and find 200 teudot zehut, an ignorant person speculates that it was meant for use in election fraud and people believe it. why? because we are motivated by sinat chinum instead of ahavat chinum. does any one ask how did the police know to go to that apartment? don't those who are against voting in elections on principle (of which there are many in RBS B) usually collect their teudote zehute in a central location on election day so as not to be tempted to vote? is it not more likely that that is what the police found, since that location would have been well known, rather than an attempt to commit fraud which would have been kept secret? (or do we all think that the bet shemesh police are such super sleuths?). if we are motivated by love we would think the best of our fellow jews, if we are motivated by sinat chinum we will believe the worst.

make no mistake, we are being tested, and throughout history there has always been a terrible price to pay for failing these types of tests. let us realize the importance of this historic moment, and save ourselves from a terrible error, and the tragedies that such errors cause, and let us be a good example to our children, so we can raise a new generation steeped in ahavat chinum.

yechiel reit
a resident of RBS A

Response by Shoshanna Jaskoll

I am posting an open response to yechiel's letter here because I have no way of knowing how far or to whom this letter has gotten, and because who knows how many also see the situation as yechiel does. But it needs to be addressed. 

Yechiel

Given the sentiments you express in your letter. I doubt you intended or have any idea of the pain you caused those who lived through the Orot trauma or those of us who tried, tirelessly, to end it.

It was traumatic on many levels, some of which were the reasons you speak of. We made aliya to live in EY with other Jews- brothers and sisters. And learning that there are those Jews who just do not see us as Jews is for many of us, the most painful part of living here.

I will briefly touch on Orot.  I live here in RBS and was one of the few from here that went down during the day to see what I could do to help.  I refuse to allow continual denials and misjudgments on what went on there.

You write that this was about tznius. It was not. It was a turf war. They want the DL away. They pulled the same shtik with the boys’ school.

You write that OROT was offered to move to another comparable building.  A.) they were offered to switch boys for girls which would not solve ‘the mothers’ in whatever dress you claim was an issue.  B.) they raised money for that school and built it for their girls. They need not go ANYWHERE because a group of terrorists- and that’s what they are- terrorists who call little GIRLS whores and shiksas to scare them away.

Perhaps- and this is the most galling to me- if the people of RBSA had bothered to take themselves down there to see first hand what the girls and their mothers had to go through and had they ONCE gotten together in a fit of Ahavas Chinam as you say, they might have stood there as a human barrier between the thugs and the little girls like I did when I was spit ON not ‘spit at on the ground’.  (Should you doubt the veracity of my claim, it is on video.)

Had the greater community come together to say NO to this terror, the thugs would know that they had no chance to continue to terrorize little girls. I know it is hard to imagine if you weren't there. But I was there and I can tell you that it was horrific. A rabid, sneering, mob of thugs calling LITTLE GIRLS whores- And you think we should APPEASE THIS BEHAVIOR??

Honestly, Yechial, you might as well go tell the citizens of Sderot to go to the Gaza fence and hug a Hamas guy and empathize with where he’s coming from, And FTR, the citizens of Sheinfeld took Mishloach Manot to all the neighbors across the road. They made sure it was all bedatz, only the men delivered them, and it had a beautiful letter in Eng, Heb and Yiddish. A little known fact which I think says a lot.

It was not about tznious and you do a great disservice to say it was.  And you do not mention the rocks, feces, vandalism, and other acts of terror perpetrated on an elementary school.

And where was the mayor? NO WHERE. We personally spoke to him and begged him to come to the school. Did he stand there and tell the thugs to go away? No. He did not. He did not stand up for his kids and his people. Not once.

As to the elections. I ask how it is that you expect Ahavat Chinam of a population that has been trounced upon. I ask how you can expect those of us who have had our intelligence insulted and our choice for proper leadership stolen to smile about it. Are we to accept fraud and crime with a smile? http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/my-city-was-stolen/

But don’t take my word for it http://www.jewishpress.com/news/breaking-news/mounting-evidence-beit-shemesh-votes-stolen-election-tainted/2013/10/28/

I see nothing in your letter appealing to Abutbol and his followers and their wretched campaign of Sinah.  I see nothing in your letter appealing to the “haredi’ camp asking them to display some Free Love and understanding to those of us who feel robbed and made to feel like unwanted citizens.

As a result of this campaign I am embarrassed as a Jew and mortified as a citizen of this city. The campaign was run on lies about Eli and rotten insinuations and fraudulent claims of Daas Torah.  Abutbul’s camp tore up this city with fear mongering and claims that to not vote for him was a sin.

On election day itself, crimes, illegal voting, ballot tampering … You know, there were disguises found with the hundreds of TZ in that apartment. Lending further credence to the use of them to perpetrate fraud.

Your letter is insulting to a population that has taken hits and come back again and again to try and make things work.  It is a further insult to a population that has seen their children chased, had rocks thrown at them, had their overtures rebuffed,  and has been left to fight for its kids and city all by itself.

To insinuate that if we had hugged the thugs they would smile and invite us for dinner? Your blaming of the victims is really quite stunning. If you think for one second that those thugs would be ok with you and your wife and kids, you are 100% wrong. But you don’t live on the border like the people in Sheinfeld do.

I’m curious why you only ask for the ahavat chinam to come from one side and not from the other.  How can you blame the situation on the ‘DL’ lack of ahavat chinam, and not on the lack of ahavat chinam of the other side? If you would like to see change, you’d really have to start by dialoguing with the side that writes threatening letters and destroys property and get them to the table…

You know what a true show of Ahavat Chinam would be, Yechiel? For those in RBSA (including those Rabbanim that refused despite our pleas to come and add their voices to ours) to say, “It was wrong what went on there in Orot.  We should have stood with you. We were wrong not to and we will never leave you alone again. Together, we will fight hatred and evil no matter what it wears and will not divide ourselves by dress or hashkafa again. You are our brothers and sisters.’

That would be a real call to ahavat Chinam. That call I would add my voice to.

SKJ

I’m posting here a response to your letter from a resident of the area: 

Yechiel - There were houses on Rehov Gd for a few years before houses were built on herzog. Houses sprung up on Herzog and as a way of introducing themselves, the new residents on Herzog sent messages to their new neighbors on Gad. They did not say. “Hi, we are your new neighbors pleased to meet you “ Despite the fact that the houses were separated by a 4 lane road with a divider the notes put in the letterboxes went like this. “We can see your televisions. If you do not remove them “WE WILL NOT BE RESPONSIBLE FOR WHAT WILL HAPPEN TO YOU”  A community activist stepped in and negotiated. He negotiated and then simply gave in to their violent and bizarre request. Shutters closed or television removed. Some of us were horrified by his capitulation to violence...but then what happened? THEY THREATENED HIM further and further.

The election fraud is ENORMOUS

Today I met someone whose 85 year old mother voted in the election- ....even though she has been in Canada for 5 years . I heard of someone who voted for Eli Cohen. At her Kalpi not a single vote for Eli Cohen was recorded 7 people were arrested using fake TZ- (none of them were those secular)

One of our neighbors caught someone cheating (he could not recite his number and did not know the name of his children) but the misrad hapnim representative said to just not allow him to vote, gave him the TZ back and let him go!! In the national elections there were 270 votes not allowed (psulim) in Bet shemesh in this election there were 800 about psulim to Eli Cohen alone, many ripped. There are so many complaints that there is a team of lawyers trying to handle them all. There are asking for more volunteers.

This is not Sinat Chinum. This is wanting to live in a non violent/honest country where people don’t study each other’s dress and pass judgments based on that.

Please do not say that we live in galut- it implies that you have no connection to the land or others that live here . It is what gives people permission to lie to each other and destroy the beauty of the country...
Some people live in the Galut. I live in the wonderful land of Israel . I love the land and I am part of all the people and want to grow as one nation. In order for that to happen we cannot tolerate violence and aggression . We must pursue Righteousness and cannot rest when we see the most horrible chilul hashem occurring in our midst.

Dear Yechiel. I am assuming that you did not know the extent of the election fraud , Now that you do, I a interested in what you have to say- how should it be handled?.







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