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Feb 9, 2012
Gafni Offers His Knesset Seat To Haredi Woman
Yesterday was not just Tu B'Shvat. It was also the 63rd birthday of the Knesset.
Happy Birthday! I think the blessing "until 120" applies very nicely to the Knesset bearing 120 seats...
In honor of the birthday, the knesset hosted a variety of activities, including debates between MKs from various parties on varying subjects.
One of the debates was a debate between Moshe Gafni (UTJ) and Tzippi Hotovely (LIKUD), with the issue being the exclusion of women from the public sphere. While discussing the issue of female soldiers singing they tended to agree.
The interesting part of the debate was when Tzippi Hotovely asked Moshe Gafni why UTJ does not have a female MK.
Gafni began his response by saying that haredi women are not interested in being MKs. he said if he would put an ad in the Yated asking for a woman who wants to be a member of Knesset, not a single woman would contact him.
The reporter from Bechadrei asked Gafni after the session was finished if it is really true that not a single woman would be interested. Gafni responded that if a "real haredi" woman wanted to be MK, he would even give her his own seat.
I think saying "not a single woman would want to be MK" is like saying "haredi women want to sit in the back of the bus. they do so voluntarily". Sure, they want to, because you told them they have to. Haredi women, like most of the haredi community, listen and usually follow the rules they are told to follow. When the haredi women are taught that they are not allowed to be in the public eye, they cannot lead men and institutions, then if you would ask the average haredi woman if she is interested in such a position, of course it will be difficult to find someone who will say she wants the job.
And Gafni gave himself an "out". He qualified his offer by saying a "real haredi woman". Meaning any woman who takes up the offer, calls his bluff really, his response will be that she is not a "real haredit" - he might do some background checking and find an excuse with which to question her harediness, but he will disqualify her.
Happy Birthday! I think the blessing "until 120" applies very nicely to the Knesset bearing 120 seats...
In honor of the birthday, the knesset hosted a variety of activities, including debates between MKs from various parties on varying subjects.
One of the debates was a debate between Moshe Gafni (UTJ) and Tzippi Hotovely (LIKUD), with the issue being the exclusion of women from the public sphere. While discussing the issue of female soldiers singing they tended to agree.
The interesting part of the debate was when Tzippi Hotovely asked Moshe Gafni why UTJ does not have a female MK.
Gafni began his response by saying that haredi women are not interested in being MKs. he said if he would put an ad in the Yated asking for a woman who wants to be a member of Knesset, not a single woman would contact him.
The reporter from Bechadrei asked Gafni after the session was finished if it is really true that not a single woman would be interested. Gafni responded that if a "real haredi" woman wanted to be MK, he would even give her his own seat.
I think saying "not a single woman would want to be MK" is like saying "haredi women want to sit in the back of the bus. they do so voluntarily". Sure, they want to, because you told them they have to. Haredi women, like most of the haredi community, listen and usually follow the rules they are told to follow. When the haredi women are taught that they are not allowed to be in the public eye, they cannot lead men and institutions, then if you would ask the average haredi woman if she is interested in such a position, of course it will be difficult to find someone who will say she wants the job.
And Gafni gave himself an "out". He qualified his offer by saying a "real haredi woman". Meaning any woman who takes up the offer, calls his bluff really, his response will be that she is not a "real haredit" - he might do some background checking and find an excuse with which to question her harediness, but he will disqualify her.
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Is that even legal?
ReplyDeleteIs what legal?
ReplyDeletecold he give up his seat? I dont see why not...
In UTJ they have rotation agreements, which remove a sitting MK and bring ina new MK. thats how Eichler recently joined the Knesset.
While it's nice of him to offer, Gafni can't give his seat to a person of his choosing. If he resigns, they take the first person on the UTJ list who didn't get elected and admit him (whoever he is, but it's a pretty good bet it's a man) in Gafni's place.
ReplyDeleteUTJ has five seats, and Porush already resigned to make room for Eichler as part of a rotation agreement, so if Gafni would resign, whoever followed Eichler on the list would enter the Knesset
dont worry. its all theoretical, and not happening so quick. after all, no women are going to want the job! :-)
ReplyDeleteanyways, he probably meant for the next elections, not for right now.
Classic "no true Scotsman" argument.
ReplyDeleteGafni's definition of a "True" Haredi woman is a woman who (among other things) wouldn't want to become an MK.
Therefore by definition a "True" Haredi woman could not want his seat; as soon as they express interest in joining the Knesset, they have disqualified themself.
"Therefore by definition a "True" Haredi woman could not want his seat; as soon as they express interest in joining the Knesset, they have disqualified themself."
ReplyDeleteAnd what if the wife of some famous charedi person decides to take him up on this?
"Is what legal?
cold he give up his seat?"
For someone to give their seat over to another very specific person.
Classic chareidi tautology.
ReplyDeleteFolks like Gafni think they're much more clever than ordinary Jews (frum or not) like us.
ReplyDeleteEven if it is a "bluff", the mere suggestion of having a charedi woman MK is fairly radical coming from a male charedi MK!
ReplyDeleteMove over, limitations of women and "serara" (communal leadership). Move over, notions of tzenua women staying out of the public eye.
Gafni has now thrown his hat in (so to speak) with liberal Orthodoxy - by stating on public record that the criteria for a charedi woman to become an MK (a communal leader in the public eye) is simply that she "wants to". That's what I call progressive!
Now all that needs to happen is for the MKs and media to actually hold him to his words, press him on the issue, call his bluff, and for ONE charedi woman with talent and ambition to come out of the woodwork, and he'll have unwittingly created a revolution, a new reality on the ground vis-a-vis opportunities for charedi women. Brilliant!
http://thepartialview.blogspot.com/
ReplyDeleteagudah website
Wasn't there a charedi woman who served on the Meretz list? Greenfeld or something like that? I'd love to see her take him up on his offer.
ReplyDelete"Now all that needs to happen is for the MKs and media to actually hold him to his words, press him on the issue, call his bluff,"
ReplyDeleteI think if they called him on his bluff, he would have to be arrested for corruption.
It just doesn't sound legal or legit to me, that a MK can give over their seat to their "friend"
it probably isnt, which is why it makes sense to say he was bluffing, along with even if he gets called on it and gives it up it would be for the next elections and not now.
ReplyDeleteNeither can he hand over his place on the list in the next election to a person of his choosing. The UTJ list is made by the rabbis that run the party but he also wouldn't be able to do it if he was in a party that chose its candidates by direct primaries, central committee, or Ouija board.
ReplyDeletewhy not? on his word, UTJ council would appoint the order of potential MKs with the selected female in the seat that Gafni would otherwise have hel. Then, when UTJ gets it consistent 5-6 seats, it would be a woman instead of Gafni filling one of those seats. I dont see why that cant happen.
ReplyDelete" I dont see why that cant happen."
ReplyDeleteIt could happen, but it wouldn't be his decision, it would be the Parties decision to do so, not the MK's.
Wasn't there a charedi woman who served on the Meretz list? Greenfeld or something like that?
ReplyDeletethe only thing chareidi about the MK wanna be is her wig. b'emet why in the world does anyone (except her PR agent looking for a good byline) call her chareidi?
back when uri urbach was still on the radio, he said (regarding her chareidiness) "but she has a dog!". case closed