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Jul 2, 2014
Questions of faith after the murders
A lot of people have expressed, I think fairrly naturally, questions of faith in the wake up the murder of Eyal, Gilad and Naftali.
It happened after the disengagement from Gush Katif as well.
It is not unexpected. When people are told to daven to thwart the decree, they question when so much davening and act of kindness are performed but the decree moves ahead anyway.
I don't have such questions of faith. Not that I am a man of such great faith, but I dont seem to expect that the tefillos and acts of kindness must force God's hand in some way. Hopefully influence, but we usually don't have the full picture, so if we dont get the answer we wanted, it doesn't shake me.
What does bother me is something else,
Throughout the ordeal, and I think it happened in Gush Katif as well, and in many other situations in which the religious community felt it must get the decree turned around, is the great rabbis, and I dont say that flippantly, who said that they can see from this or that that the boys are alive, they are in specific places, and things like that. Whether it was the performance of the goral hagra, or other rabbonim who said such things, and there were plenty of them - what business did they have giving such false hope?
Do they have ruach hakodesh, that they should know such things, or do they not? If they do not, don't make it up. and if they do, why were they wrong? Are they false prophets? Were they making it up just to keep people optimistic?
Without weighing in on whether or not performance of the goral hagra requires a level of ruach hakodesh, it seems Rav Shteinman knew what he was talking about when he refused to perform it, considering the false results of the goral hagra that was employed.
That is what bothers me. Saying daven and hopefully we'll get good results - that doesnt bother me when we dont get those results. When rabbis act as if they are prophets and then give information that turns out not to be true - that bothers me. That makes me question things like daas torah and the "powers" of the rabbis..
It happened after the disengagement from Gush Katif as well.
It is not unexpected. When people are told to daven to thwart the decree, they question when so much davening and act of kindness are performed but the decree moves ahead anyway.
I don't have such questions of faith. Not that I am a man of such great faith, but I dont seem to expect that the tefillos and acts of kindness must force God's hand in some way. Hopefully influence, but we usually don't have the full picture, so if we dont get the answer we wanted, it doesn't shake me.
What does bother me is something else,
Throughout the ordeal, and I think it happened in Gush Katif as well, and in many other situations in which the religious community felt it must get the decree turned around, is the great rabbis, and I dont say that flippantly, who said that they can see from this or that that the boys are alive, they are in specific places, and things like that. Whether it was the performance of the goral hagra, or other rabbonim who said such things, and there were plenty of them - what business did they have giving such false hope?
Do they have ruach hakodesh, that they should know such things, or do they not? If they do not, don't make it up. and if they do, why were they wrong? Are they false prophets? Were they making it up just to keep people optimistic?
Without weighing in on whether or not performance of the goral hagra requires a level of ruach hakodesh, it seems Rav Shteinman knew what he was talking about when he refused to perform it, considering the false results of the goral hagra that was employed.
That is what bothers me. Saying daven and hopefully we'll get good results - that doesnt bother me when we dont get those results. When rabbis act as if they are prophets and then give information that turns out not to be true - that bothers me. That makes me question things like daas torah and the "powers" of the rabbis..
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Eyal, Naftali, and Gil-Ad live on in our hearts and with our souls. For 18 days they were missing. So much tefillot poured out from our souls. Some, in retrospect, was with our knowing, the truth. One song, put on this site on
ReplyDeleteJune 20th said that they can kill our bodies, but not our souls. For 18 days we davened to Hashem and had such achdut, much of which will last and will forever be a well spring for us. They will live on in our heart and with our souls. 18 is Chai. May their memories live on forever.
Very good points, Rafi, all around.
ReplyDeleteRegarding the questions of faith, living as we do some 70 years after the Shoah, I'm not sure what questions of faith could be raised be this or any other incident, no matter how horrific, that would not have already been raised by even a cursory knowledge of history.
Can you cite examples other than the recent goral hagra?
ReplyDeleteRe Gush Katif: A lot of noise was made about some rabbanim who said "hayo lo tihye". In my eyes, this stems from a simple misunderstanding of the phrase. It doesn't mean "it will not happen". It is, rather, a prayer that it shouldn't happen. Like "lo aleinu".
I think Rav Mordechai Eliyahu zt"l was most famous and recorded insisting "hayo lo tihye" which in hindsight was indeed a vague hint that it happened but perhaps it won't happen. Maybe we didn't pray enough? I also remember that the rav said something like 'Hashem does not embarrass tzadikim' (if someone has the exact saying), so it really, really disturbed me at the mass prayer session at the kotel in which the sound system was incredible (I was only able to get close but not into the Kotel area), but when the Rav spoke it came out gibberish, and afterwards it returned to work perfectly.
DeleteOne more thing: not every rabbi is blessed with common sense. See Rav Lichtenstein's article
ReplyDeletehttp://tinyurl.com/qxzsujp
I heard it said in the past, that Hashem always hears our prayers, and always answers them as well. But sometimes for reasons we cannot understand the answer is no.
ReplyDeleteI felt during these last two weeks, that if our prayers had been answsered with the safwe return of the boys, there would have been such an outpouring of simcha and joy, and such a knock out to our enemies, it would have been like just after Entebbe. That is what is necessary, to bring back the spirit of the days after Entebbe. Of course, it was much easier in those days, the enemy was very public, and could be seen, and we knew where to go. But I am sure we will have our day, when we can hold our heads high, and say, that Hashem said yes, and that he has saved us, and our enemies are now suffering, and will recognise his Kingship over the world.