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Feb 25, 2016
recognizing the Reform
This whole ongoing discussion about the Reform in Israel, with the Kotel, the mikvas and all that, reminds me of a story.
The story goes that the Brisker Rav and Rav Amram Bloi once had a discussion about protesting against the State of Israel for something they were doing. Rav Bloi was critical of the Brisker Rav for not participating in his protests. The Brisker Rav supposedly responded that the Neturei Karta is really a Zionist organization. He explained that in Russia they would never have protested against the government because they knew they would have been killed by the brutal police. In Israel, however, they do protest because they know the Zionists will not kill them. That itself, the Brisker Rav said, is acceptance of the Zionists.
The fact that deals were made and protests leveled and insults thrown, that the Orthodox (I heard such an acceptance in the name of Rav Elyashiv as well) were willing to give the Reform a section further way as long as it isn't in the main section, shows that the Haredi leaders have now granted some sort of acceptance and recognition of the Reform. R' Mottka Bloi was even on the radio debating and arguing with a Reform Rabba (female Rabbi).
30 or 50 years ago this would not have happened. They would not have been willing to talk at all about such an option. There would have been no deals. Anything that happened would have been against the wishes and without any compliance or agreement of the Haredi leadership.
I think the Reform can point to this as probably their greatest success in all this.
The story goes that the Brisker Rav and Rav Amram Bloi once had a discussion about protesting against the State of Israel for something they were doing. Rav Bloi was critical of the Brisker Rav for not participating in his protests. The Brisker Rav supposedly responded that the Neturei Karta is really a Zionist organization. He explained that in Russia they would never have protested against the government because they knew they would have been killed by the brutal police. In Israel, however, they do protest because they know the Zionists will not kill them. That itself, the Brisker Rav said, is acceptance of the Zionists.
The fact that deals were made and protests leveled and insults thrown, that the Orthodox (I heard such an acceptance in the name of Rav Elyashiv as well) were willing to give the Reform a section further way as long as it isn't in the main section, shows that the Haredi leaders have now granted some sort of acceptance and recognition of the Reform. R' Mottka Bloi was even on the radio debating and arguing with a Reform Rabba (female Rabbi).
30 or 50 years ago this would not have happened. They would not have been willing to talk at all about such an option. There would have been no deals. Anything that happened would have been against the wishes and without any compliance or agreement of the Haredi leadership.
I think the Reform can point to this as probably their greatest success in all this.
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That is not recognition (beyond the most basic sense of recognizing that they EXIST - which was never denied). Recognition would mean according them legitimacy, which still hasn't been done.
ReplyDeleteI heard this story but it was Rav Shach,z"l, who was credited with the Zionist zinger.
ReplyDeleteMy guess is that it will be deserted most of the time, because the non-Torah observant rarely pray, whether as a group or on their own. Daily minyan three times a day, or 24 hour Tihillim or any of the reasons that the "regular" Kotel always has people, are not the routine/custom for the "egalitarians," or whatever you want to call them. I suggest that people walk by at the odd hours, day and night to see how much they actually use it. Take photos with the date/time.
ReplyDeleteironic - Israel demands recognition from outside groups and fights internally about granting groups of Jews recognition
ReplyDeleteIf the Orthodox are smart, they will adopt the new area themselves. There is already an effort to do so. Lately when I am at the Western Wall, I drop in to the beginning of that area since there is a nice quiet shaded area to rest but have never ever seen anyone on the actual platform.
ReplyDelete