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Sep 17, 2017
Rav Chaim Kanievsky said what he said, but what did he mean?
This is a bit of a strange situation.
As Hurricane Irma made its approach towards Miami, some people went to Rav Chaim Kanievsky asking what to do. The question, and his answer somehow seemed unclear enough that it stirred a debate around the world as to what exactly he was asked and what he meant.
While to me it seems pretty clear what is being asked and what is being answered, I guess it was not as clear as it seemed to me.
Judge for yourself:
Seems clear to me bu tthere were big debates what he meant.
Truthfully I am not even sure why anyone felt they needed to ask him, but ok. I am not sure who would refuse to leave until Rav Kanievsky would say so. It was clearly a situation of danger and pikuach nefesh would mandate evacuating even on Shabbos. But they asked, and it seems he answered, albeit one word but still seems clear.
The question to me is raised in an article on Behadrei berating other news media for "getting it wrong" and misunderstanding and therefore misquoting Rav Kanievsky.
The article says the JTA quoted Rav Chaim Kanievsky as having said the Jews should travel on Shabbos to flee from the path of the hurricane. Other news sites then picked that up and also reported it as such.
Behadri says they got it wrong and Rav Chaim never said that. Unfortunately the author of the article on Behadrei does not explain what Rav Chaim Kanievsky was saying if he was not saying that. He said "sakana" and then nodded when confirmed that people should leave on Shabbos. What did he mean if not that people should leave on Shabbos?
I don't actually care what he said, and I do not think it had any relevance in real-time and I saw no point in the question being asked to him. Local rabbonim, even gedolim, in the USA should have been asked any question about what to do in such a situation, if any question was even necessary. That being said, if the author thinks he has more insight than everyone else into what Rav Chaim Kanievsky actually said or meant, he should at least tell us and not just say everyone else got it wrong. Considering what the video shows and what the author says everyone misunderstood, I am more curious as to his interpretation of the conversation than anything else!
And if even one word with a nod is so difficult to understand, and so easily misunderstood, is there any value in asking the question to receive such an unclear answer?
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Who are the "some people" who asked him this question? Did anyone in the path of the hurricane in Florida actually say, let's send a shaila to R. Chaim Kanievsky about this? Or are these just some busy bodies (I am being polite) bothering him with nonsense that has no relevance to them.
ReplyDeleteBTW, in terms of Chillul Shabbos, I am having a hard time understanding this. There was about a week of warning that the hurricane was coming. Most people had plenty of time before Shabbos to leave if that was appropriate. If you have that much pre-warning, I have a hard time justifying sitting around for a week on the assumption that you can then be mechallel Shabbos. (Obviously not talking about someone who cannot leave at that point for some compelling reason.)
I dont know. I know people that left earlier and I know people that did not. I was also told that many people could not just because of the roads being jammed and long lines for gas and whatnot. even if they did not for whatever reason, come Shabbos and the sakana is real, surely they can leave then.
ReplyDeleteRegardless, forget Miami for a moment. think of every other city it hit when it took that unexpected turn westward and went up to Tampa and other cities that got hit without expecting it in advance. the guy asking the question mentioned Miami, but surely the question was not specific to Miami and referred to every town (with a Jewish community) in the path of the hurricane
I don't disagree with what you say. Obviously, the unexpected can happen, or someone simply is unable to leave earlier. My point, though, is that if you have forewarning and believe you are going to have to leave, then you should do it before Shabbos if you can.
ReplyDeleteI have friends who live in Miami. A few years ago there was a major hurricane coming their way (I don't remember which one). People were telling them online that they had to leave immediately and if they didn't flee at that moment they got what they deserved.
ReplyDeleteThey responded with a number of very insightful points. Hurricanes are a regular occurrence. It takes a tremendous amount of resources both financially and abandoning responsibilities every time there might be a hurricane.
They also shared their story of a previous attempt to run away from a hurricane. They fled to an area that was supposed to be considered safe. The hurricane changed directions and they ended up being stuck taking the brunt of the hurricane. If they had stayed home they would have been perfectly safe.
People do make stupid decisions when faced with life threatening situations. Not all decisions for people facing those situations are not always so black and white.
interesting. I know people who stayed in Irma who said similarly
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