The reason one should take advantage if he has the opportunity is innovative. Rav Elyashiv said one should try to see Bush and gaze upon his countenance so that later when he sees the King Messiah, he should come speedily in our days, he will be able to recognize the difference between a powerful leader who is not a king, and between the Messiah who is a king.

Its actually a gemara in berachos (19B? 20B? sugya of ain chochma v'ain sevuna...)

will bush visit rav elyashiv?

Rav Nissim Karelitz was also asked the question. ... and they have no power to confiscate lands.

Isn't that not true? At least in the US we still of the concept of Eminent Domain

eminent domain is not the president's personal right to confiscate land on a whim.

lazer b and special ed --

if its an issue of national security, the government can confiscate whatever it wants, don't be foolish. I'm certain there are those who will claim national security by gaza also.

Besides that, i am certain you don't want to start getting into land confiscations... no.. it wasn't the US Government who kicked out millions of native americans and made them walk across 5 states...

Just because he doesn't have the "personal right", doesn't mean he can't find the "poilitcal resources" to do so. And then our own PM won't be too far off that scale of "king" either.

Funny. The President does not directly order executions. But blood on his hands? I think so.

anonymous 1 - I looked up those pages quickly and did not find it. Either I missed it or it is on a different page... But I guess it is not innovative. I would guess, without seeing it and without remembering it, that the gemara was referring to a human king compared to king messiah, while Rav Elyashiv is saying Bush is not a king, so in a sense it is still innovative.

lakewood - not that I know of, though Mayor Lapoliansky supposedly passed a letter from R' Elyashiv to him..

therapy - the thought struck me as well, even though he has no formal powers of declaring someone rebellious or treasonoous and putting him to death, we all know and have read that the prez has people who can make you rlife miserable and even have you killed if he does not like you.. unless those are all fairy tales...

lazer, ed and whats - the discussion of eminent domain I think is misplaced because that power is not in the hands of the president. the most he can do is make a decision of a path he wants to push, but he still has to persuade his government to play along. He might successfully do so using all sorts of methods, and may get them to approve his plan, but he did not confiscate land - his government did.

I thought that since he had the power of clemency (which I believe he could grant to a condemned prisoner) that meant that he had the power of life and death.

clemency gives him the power of life. He still cannot randomly pick someone and say "put him to death".

So what about a dictator? Nowadays that is the closest equivalent to an old style king.

Would you try and go and say a bracha for kim jong IL?

The President absolutely confiscated lands in Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Germany, the Phillipines, etc. for U.S. bases; only out of political correctness do we pay these countries token lease amounts. He can order the release of prisoners, and order the killings of those he deems dangerous like Saddam, Fidel, etc. even if it is via the CIA or NSA. Moreover, he can annihilate whole countries by ordering nuclear attacks---think Hiroshima and Dr Strangelove. The Pres. is more powerful than any king ever was; regrettably, the Pres does not wear a Torah around his neck to remind him of the real King.

Dan - I wondered about a dictator as well. I do not now how this issue would relate to the case of a dictator... Anybody out there know? the only thing I might suggest is if he was an evil dictator, one might be "prohibited" (or at least strongly urged to not) from seeing him because we are not supposed to look at evil... But I do not know...

Dr G - that is all foreign policy. And he cannot just go on his own and send troops to Iraq or wherever. he had to muster the support of Congress and everybody else.
In the USA, he cannot get up and point to someone in the crowd in front of him and say "Execute him"

BTW - I saw in the paper today that Eli Yishai said he made the bracha for a king when he saw Bush yesterday. he said "for the most powerful person in the world, the bracha applies". He did not specifically quote Rav Ovadiah Yosef, but that is who he follows, and I am sure he must have asked and Rav Ovadiah must have instructed him what to do.... so I guess Bush is powerful enough for Rav Ovadiah to give him status of "king" in this regard...

I heard that interview on Galei Tzahal with Eli Yishai and had that exact thought.

Or maybe he made it without shem and malchut.

Rafi-

There are plenty of poskim who hold one should say the bracha b'shem on Bush.

And the Gedlim you mentioned are mistaken. Bush DOES have the power of life/death (i.e. vetoing executions) and he DOES have the power of Eminent Domain in the entire coutnry.

I just found this:

Dr. Aumann asked Rav Aaron Lichtenstein whether he was mechuyav to recite the bracha "she'natan michvodo l'basar va'dam" when he shakes the hand of the Swedish king but was told "no" since the king had no formal powers.

This is reminiscent of ROY's psak to the person attending the Aqaba
summit in 1994 where he saw at the same time Bill Clinton, King Hussein and Yitzhak Rabin. He asked whether he needed to make the berakha of "asher halak m'kvodo" upon seeing any or all of these leaders. R. Ovadia paskened as follows: Clinton - No; Rabin - No; Hussein - Yes. Reason: Of the three, only Hussein had the power to summarily execute any of his citizens without due process...

http://www.aishdas.org/avodah/vol16/v16n058.shtml#12

that veto power (stay of execution) is the power of life, not the power of death. He still cannot stand in front of a crowd, point at someone and say "Off with his head!".

Regarding eminent domain, does he have the power more than the level of the police superintendent or the mayor (who we buy rights from for eruv purposes)? does that give him the power to confiscate lands, personally (i.e. on his own whim rather than requiring government approval), or just to enter people's property when necessary?

yishai - that leaves the question (assuming ROY told Eli Yishai to make the bracha), why by Clinton he said no and by Bush he said yes...

The Early Acharonim state that you make teh Beracha on someone who has the power להמית ולהחיות. Th elater acharonimn have a machlokes whether he needs the power to do both or is 1 (e.g. clemencies) sufficient.

The poskim mention a number of other issues regarding the President of the US as well as to why he would not have the status of a King:
1. His term is fixed, after a maximum of 8 years he goes home
2. He doesn't dress or even act like a King. The US President is supposed to be a man of the people and is not someone who is considered above the people.

I heard the following story which brings this point out when Clinton visited Boro Park in 1999.

Someon asked should he say the Beracha. The Rabbi answered him yes, שלא עשני גוי

bluke - I find the dress issue (your #2) to be particularly interesting...

RAFI:

"The logic is that a king is differentiated from any plain old leader by the fact that he has the power to mete out capital punishment or other forms of punishment, on his own whim. The President of the US does not have this power."

no european has this power either, so why recite the berakhah for him/her

YISHAI

"Dr. Aumann asked Rav Aaron Lichtenstein whether he was mechuyav to recite the bracha "she'natan michvodo l'basar va'dam" when he shakes the hand of the Swedish king but was told "no" since the king had no formal powers."

i'm pretty sure auman did the recite it (maybe he asked someone else also?), as did agnon when he got his prize

ברכות נ"ח: אמרר'יוחנן לעולם ישתדל אדם לרוץ אפילו לקראת מלכי אומות העולם שאםיזכה יבחין
בין מלכי ישראל למלכיהם.

רש"י:שאם יזכה ויראה בכבוד מלך המשיח.

thanks Nava. So Rav Elyashiv is saying that even though Bush does not have the status of "king", that gemara still applies...

yishai - that leaves the question (assuming ROY told Eli Yishai to make the bracha), why by Clinton he said no and by Bush he said yes...

Rafi,

I had the same thought. Other possibilities are that Eli Yishai simply made a mistake or that ROY changed his mind.

I don't know.

Yep we should see bush, so that when moshiach comes we will see how the pathetic ghetto jews go to kiss a non jewish ruler yet will probably try to arrest moshiach..

Also someone mentioned "due process" the constitution in the 5th ammandment sets forth that "No person shall be ... deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law"

The president cant override due process (as far as I know) and any excutive order can be balanced and overthrown by the supreme court.. and anything such as a war must be authorized by congress.

A judge theoreticaly has more power than the president.. although I believe a judge can only ask jurors to hand down a death sentance.. I dont even think a non jury trial can execute a person.

The one case I can think of, where a president can actualy send someone to death. Would be a case of treason with the president being the commander in chief.. in my limited legal knowledge this would imply a previous suspension of habas corpus.

Did David kill uriah? halachikaly I believe so.. sending a man on a suicide mission is something the president can do but that does not classify as putting a man to death.

BTW, in the mishpacha this week, when describing Bush's arrival, it said that Eli Yishai made the bracha upon seeing a king, but he made it with no "shem u'malchus"