I wonder what he would say about partnering with the religious soldiers.
This is one of the most inane things I have read in a while.A few comments about the infamous "20 shekels"1. From all of the Kollel guys and poor people who come around collecting in Haredi shuls, I think maybe 1/2% give them 20 shekels2. The average Israel taxpayer pays a lot more than 20 shekels a month to support yeshivas3. Puk Hazi: Instead of assuming everyone is a Rasha, I wonder if Kavod HaRav ever tried to enter into a Masorti home and say that he had nothing to eat and needed 20 shekels. I am near positive that he would not be turned down.
dont be ridiculous - how can he possibly eat in such a person's house? what about the level of kashrus?
compare to sichot mussar R' Chaim Shmulevitz 2000 edition with the added lregel hamatzav where he compares the defenders of Israel (73 war vintage) to harugei lud (4th row aisle seats in olam haba)KTJoel Rich
This is such a shame.OK, Haredism is now officially a disease.This is wrong in so many and such preposterous ways...but, B"H, I think every Jew unless totally lobotomized by DT can see all of this for himself.Mr. Weintraub should realize though that he is talking to the walls. ONly a small % of people listening take him seriously.His 'vision' is doomed.
It is a real shame that R. Weintraub feels the need to distant his talmidim (bnai torah) for the rest of the Klal.
So let me see if I understand. (I am chiloni and need to assume that I am missing something) One orthodox rabbi says that people who are not orthodox are sinners who will be punished and that because they are sinners the orthodox community should not have interactions with them. And this is out of the mainstream orthodoxy how? Have you seen meah heariim or geula? or satmer town or skverville? Isn't that sort of fundamental to the modern version of orthojewry? I know a Rabbi here in town, one of the leaders and pillars of the ortho- community. He married me; so Rafi G can verify his reputation. And that he is lakewood not chasidic. He will not attend functions or speak if there are reform rabbis present, as "they are not judaism." And if a major community leader, who is politically active to boot, not just a guy in a hovel, if he wont interact with secular jews then how is weintraub not mainstream for your religion?
To The Way:There is a difference between a Rabbi's saying that he will not recognize reform JUDAISM (meaning giving equal status to their RABBIS) versus someone not wanting to acknowledge reform (or secular) JEWS.WHoever your marrying Rabbi in Beit Shemesh happens to be, and no matter how extreme you view him to be, I can almost guarantee you that Rabbi Weintraub would consider him an apikores -- that's how extreme he is.I understand that he condemns things so frequently that outside of a small circle, little attention is paid to his crusades.
A real question, is Kavod Harav aware that over 50% of the chayalim are datiim, all accepted tzitzes, tehillim and brochos before going into battle? Also historically (and in Tanach) there have been many examples where nisiim and niflaos happened to 'sinners'.
Gly,there may be a difference to you, but the chiloni members of that sect of judaism see it as a rejection of their belief and thereby a rejection of them as jews. These are jews who happen to see the world through a different prism than the ortho-jews. And they do not reject the ortho jews or rabbis even though those jews believe differently. Apparently, one group is secure in their reality and one group is not. One group feels that what they have is great and is enhanced by the greater world and the other group feels that even though they are great they cannot withstand interaction with the outside world or their views on the world will collapse. Oh, and neither the rabbi nor I live in Israel. I was married in Israel and the Rabbi flew in from America.
Thanks for posting this, Rafi G.Ahhhh, the Sheid theory.That's a new one (at least in the jblogosphere).Interesting.
that was surprising, yaak. have you heard that one elsewhere?
To The Way,I hear what you are saying, but my life experience (having been part of both these worlds and still interacting with both) tells me different.In brief:While you are correct that the deligitimization of reform and cons rabbis is perceived by reform and cons Jews as a delegitimization of themselves.This is precisely why it is important to effectively communicate this distinction to those jews.I cannot go into this with you via a message board, but would be happy to speak with you by phone to continue the discussion, if you wish.Rafi G. has my EMAIL address; I wrote to him a couple of times yesterday regarding this Rav Veintraub matter.Kol Tuv
gly,I appreciate the offer but I am happy to go into it on the message board. I don't see any reason why a conversation like this should be taken off-line.I also don't understand how one can think that you can separate delegitamizing one's ideology and beliefs, from themselves. That would be like me saying that your whole version of Judaism is way off base, that the rabbis who preach charedi/ortho judaism have really evolved based on christian and muslim influence but thats just how I understand the faith you choose and is not a reflection of you as a person or as a jew. Your rabbi is just wrong in everything he thinks feels and believes. Yeah, Im sure I just need to communicate that difference more effectively.And I think there are more than enough examples of christian/islamic influence on ortho-judaism to justify that remark.
Things like this do not weaken my emunas chachomim in the least; they just help me refine my view of who is a chochom.